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The 12' to 15' Chasm & Your Mental Sixpack

I am in the midst of a pre-os prep phase as part of my return to activity. Against my very nature, I am taking it slow and trying to be smart about the comeback...part of me really wants to go out and drill myself but the other part (guess which) thinks that might not be the best idea.

So I am dutifully hitting the trainer 3x a week and running 3-4x a week. I have been building up the FTP intervals each week, and today was moving from 12' intervals to 15' intervals...and man, there is more than three minutes in that space. This reminds me of the mental sixpack discussions from yore, where we talked about how just training hard on a regular basis in the OS really helps you recalibrate exactly what hard is.

I got recalibrated this AM...it was tough, and I suffered in the second 15 minutes. But I thought of all you guys drilling it and found a way to get it done. See you in November!

~P

Comments

  • Good Job, glad to see you back at it. The six pack will come and you know it.

  • 12' to 15' is rough for sure....but the change from 15' to 20' - Is a lifetime If you look away, I swear, the clock starts to move backwards

    Good to see you back at it, hitting it hard

     

     

  •  Awesome job.  But, are we talking beer or abs?  I haven't seen my six pack of abs in almost 20 years, but its my goal this year.  Although I have seen a six pack of beer much more recently!  Keep on killing it man!

  • @Hayes, How right you are!!
  • Hayes, you are sooo right!

    With the 12', I could split the intervals into 4' thirds. With 15', 5' thirds. Something about not having even numbers when dividing 20 by 3---just crushes me everytime I do the first one.

    Great to see you back in the saddle working hard, P! I declare 2011 The Year of EN Comebacks.
  • HA! I was all spoutin' off on the dashboard about my 15' interval today. Just downloaded the workout and it was actually 1x10 and 1x12! The 12' felt so long that, by the time I came upstairs, my brain had come to  totally believe I had done a 15'! OMG, that's going to hurt so bad next week! Bring it on! But Hayes is so right...20' is on a planet all its own.

  • So glad you posted thisimage. I have a spin bike here on the Cape for our vacations, so no PM just HR. I was only doing 4 x 8' but what got me through was knowing all of you were working way harder and longer than I was. If I had to do a minute longer I would have crumbled. Now I can look forward to the eternity of 15-20 minute intervals. Uuggh! Will need to come up with a mantra to get me through. The one I have used of late includes words that don't quite align with my personality(or should my 6 year old Madison hear), ha!
  • Nice job coach P.  The mental six pack will come back but I would suggest it's there for the most part.  It's probably harder to be smart about the come back than to hammer yourself.  On the other end I remember something about a bucket on your previous FTP test.  I'm sure you will get enough changes to push yourself in the OS.

    Threads like this are great when I am being lazy, it makes me look at what I did and say get out there and get it done.

    Gordon

  • I am sooooooooooo greatful to see this post today. Unlike Linda, I haven't even THOUGHT about doing an FTP interval since IMWI. And Threshold pace runs? uh, yeah, with the injury last year it's been, oooooh maybe a year since I've run a "fast" pace for more than a 400!

    I've been really enjoying my little holiday from the grind of the training schedule. But I've also been worried about how my brain has been detrained over this time. My mental six pack is likely more like a shot glass!

    So thank you Coach P! Your "baby steps" approach to re-joining the hard core gang has helped me see that I should start thinking about working myself back up to normal training intensities just a little at a time. By January I'll be ready to rock the OS with the rest of you.

    That was the kick in the pants I needed!
  • I have been procrastinating putting my bike on the trainer - big time! I've been riding a lot but all outside with my roadie friends. I need to acclimate before November hits.

    Nice work P!

  • Started my baby steps yesterday with 3 x 5'(1') at FTP.  I plan to slowly ramp up with another minute or so each session so I'm ready for the Nov OS.

    Usually it is a really hard transition for me to go back to the trainer and start the OS, but this year I did weeks 10 and 11 of my IM plan on the trainer.  3 hours on the trainer with FTP and 85% work and no fan completely redefined my mental six pack.  It was close to the hardest 3 hours of my life (right behind running an IM marathon with a cramp for 22 miles), but now I draw on those "experiences" and push myself even harder in the future.

  • My bike is on the trainer but has no chain on it. Does that count as a baby step?
  • I am right there with you Patrick. Nov OS is right around the corner so need to start getting friendly with the bike again after my assortment injuries/medical dilemmas. Did 2 x 6' at FTP, or what used to be my FTP then a few sets os 2' @ 120%. Little one woke up crying so I had to hop off trainer to get her but it felt great to get that burn in the chest from doing FTP work. Love it. My plan is similar to Matt. I will go with 2 x 8' Thursday then keep stepping it up until I am ready for 2 x 20', hopefully.
  • Bike is going on the trainer this weekend. I have been enjoying the outside rides. Coach P you always have the right advice! image
  • The 12s are the "sweet spot" where work becomes WORK. Anything above 12' requires heightened psychical and mental fortitude.
  • Posted By Chris G on 19 Oct 2010 04:54 PM

    My bike is on the trainer but has no chain on it. Does that count as a baby step?

    Mine is on sitting next to the trainer with no pedals!  Oh yeah, and the stupid PT isn't reading.  Better get that fixed this week.  I'm hitting the run pretty hard, but planning for shock therapy on the bike!



     

  • Did 3x4' intervals on my run tody to shake things up and start getting my head in the game. Tough, but doable. And certainly easier than just jumping out of the gate with a 5K Test! So Thanks Coach P!
  • I have a mental uni-ab. This discussion, and some recent run experiences, have me monkeying with the idea of applying approaches of Daniels cruise intervals to bike FT work. Early thoughts are to include occassional 1 minute recoveries to help bridge that gap from 12 to 15 minutes, or 16 to 18, or whatever. The main idea behind this - which I'm happy to stand corrected on - is the 1 minute micro-break is short enough to keep lactic acid accumulation high, so upon resuming the work for another 3' (or whatever), the system get back to working at a level of LT quickly. But the micro break gives a merciful standown, and might just (and this is where a lot of people should cover their ears) let me do work a few watts above LT in order to drag things up.

    Underpinning all this is the goal of maximizing time at LT in any given session, and maximizing the adapation that should come from that. Jigging the interval from 12/1/3, to 14/1/2, to 15/1/3 (or whatever) gets there with less pain, or pain that is distributed in different ways.
  • Posted By Dave Tallo on 20 Oct 2010 10:30 AM

    I have a mental uni-ab. This discussion, and some recent run experiences, have me monkeying with the idea of applying approaches of Daniels cruise intervals to bike FT work. Early thoughts are to include occassional 1 minute recoveries to help bridge that gap from 12 to 15 minutes, or 16 to 18, or whatever. The main idea behind this - which I'm happy to stand corrected on - is the 1 minute micro-break is short enough to keep lactic acid accumulation high, so upon resuming the work for another 3' (or whatever), the system get back to working at a level of LT quickly. But the micro break gives a merciful standown, and might just (and this is where a lot of people should cover their ears) let me do work a few watts above LT in order to drag things up.



    Underpinning all this is the goal of maximizing time at LT in any given session, and maximizing the adapation that should come from that. Jigging the interval from 12/1/3, to 14/1/2, to 15/1/3 (or whatever) gets there with less pain, or pain that is distributed in different ways.





     

    Dave, I have done this in the past, not on purpose but for survival and it works well for me.

    I do my OS workouts on a CompuTrainer with ERG files so I have either do the work or quit.  There is no 95%, it is either hold 100% or stop.  Most of the time this works great and I can push through and get the workout done, however there are some days that due to fatigue, weak mojo, no mental six pack or whatever, I can't keep the pedals moving.  In those cases, I hit pause and spin for exactly 30" and then go back to getting the interval done.

    Again, I never planned to do this, but it is my way to survive and get the work done when my body says it doesn't want to.  I share it because the pattern I have noticed is that this micro breaks typcially come around the same time you are talking about (12' into a 15' interval or 15' into a 20' inteveral).

    I think I did this 2-3 times total in my first OS, but last year because of the power hack and track workouts with team 10 hours before an FTP bike season I probably did this 10 times, basically every thursday for the second half of the OS.

  • Posted By Dave Tallo on 20 Oct 2010 10:30 AM

    I have a mental uni-ab. This discussion, and some recent run experiences, have me monkeying with the idea of applying approaches of Daniels cruise intervals to bike FT work. Early thoughts are to include occassional 1 minute recoveries to help bridge that gap from 12 to 15 minutes, or 16 to 18, or whatever. The main idea behind this - which I'm happy to stand corrected on - is the 1 minute micro-break is short enough to keep lactic acid accumulation high, so upon resuming the work for another 3' (or whatever), the system get back to working at a level of LT quickly. But the micro break gives a merciful standown, and might just (and this is where a lot of people should cover their ears) let me do work a few watts above LT in order to drag things up.



    Underpinning all this is the goal of maximizing time at LT in any given session, and maximizing the adapation that should come from that. Jigging the interval from 12/1/3, to 14/1/2, to 15/1/3 (or whatever) gets there with less pain, or pain that is distributed in different ways.

     

    Complete rest wattage levels for the 1'? I may give this a go tomorrow and see how it works out.

  • Not complete rest - I would suggest easy spin / EN First Gear watts. And please post your experience, Linda!
  • Posted By Dave Tallo on 20 Oct 2010 03:27 PM

    Not complete rest - I would suggest easy spin / EN First Gear watts. And please post your experience, Linda!

     

    Got it. Gracias! Will post when I do give it a test run.

  • The Pain Cave is in order and the bike is on the trainer for the morning. Here we go!

  • Thanks for the feedback and support...this TEAM rocks!!!
  • The 12 to 15 minute chasm may be there, but you should try the 12 to 10 minute one! Tuesday bike was 2 x 12, today 2 x 10. Ten minutes was WAY easier than Tuesday's 12 minute stuff.

    Maybe the workout before our 2 x 20's should be a 2 x 30 image
  • Posted By Tom Glynn on 21 Oct 2010 12:31 PM

    The 12 to 15 minute chasm may be there, but you should try the 12 to 10 minute one! Tuesday bike was 2 x 12, today 2 x 10. Ten minutes was WAY easier than Tuesday's 12 minute stuff.



    Maybe the workout before our 2 x 20's should be a 2 x 30

    I'm not even crazy enough to try 2 x 30 by choice... but I was dumb enough to attempt a 3 x 20 last year.  The first two went pretty well so I thought I could pull off a 3rd. I quickly found a whole new level of pain and suffering.  You are correct though, the next 2 x 20 didn't seem that bad anymore.   Then I bumped my FTP up and the fun started all over.

  • Posted By Tom Glynn on 21 Oct 2010 12:31 PM

    Maybe the workout before our 2 x 20's should be a 2 x 30

    PLEASE don't give RnP any more ideas!!! The OS is painful enough.



     

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