@Beth, Dan and Steve, great job all of you. Just keep it up. Dan, sub 8min is another good benchmark. We all have these little sub/mini....goals or performance achievements, love hitting those when I can.
@John, oh boy, we have to have a talk about this run.......Just kidding. I see this as a near perfect execution. Sometimes these flow and come easy, sometimes not and you may have to push trough. I would take this as a mini victory in my log. There is always a great tendency to over pace the early part of threshold runs and turns into an all out TT. People that tend to tie themselves to numbers (me, me, me) tend to want to stick to planned pace at all cost ignoring actual weather conditions. I have done that so many times as I would be for work one day in Miami, next day in Seattle, next Salt Lake, next Aspen........just check the temp and elevation changes. It is taking me 5 years to learn how to adjust target paces based on conditions.
I will further elaborate on Daniels words on "managing intensity". This is not accomplished by blindly sticking to the book target pace, but by using RPE, breathing patterns to establish your "today's pace". He goes on to talk about T-pace and I-pace running done in windy or hot conditions, later he talks altitude as well.
Foggy morning indicates high humidity, high humidity robs you from oxygen, therefore in simple terms your threshold is relatively lower as is your VO2max in given conditions. VDOT in this case gets adjusted down. How much? Takes time to learn, also application of his table for temp rise vs. pace correction, where you can use heat index vs. 60F to adjust pace. Clearly, you could have run this slower in those conditions and still incur full benefit of T-pace running. I actually find your pacing as I said nearly perfect. It may have looked ugly for you arriving there, but on paper looks great.
Keep it up and don't beat yourself up, you are doing great.
As far as my work, yesterday was supposed to be Q2 day, much like your day, 2x2mi(2min)+1mi@T-pace, 6:37. Ended the day in Long Beach, late at sunset, legs still tired from Tuesday bike ints, went out, strapped my headlight, onto the beach, legs just did not have it and decided to put it off for today. Did 6 mi in 47min and called it a day, enjoyed the views.
Today PM, Salt Lake City, 50F, calm, 4200ft elev. Came out with 10.5 mi in 1:15:00, hit all paces as planned, IF .88, rTSS 99.45. Finally I have learned to pace T-pace runs correct. I guess elevation+ the amount kept me scared so I held back and finished strong.
First 2mi avg 6:50, next 2mi 6:44, last 1mi 6:42. Yes, they were all slower than 6:37, but that is my pace at sea level. So Q2 complete, at 27mi, two more runs for a total 40mi, to include another I-pace run 2min(1min), 1min(30sec)......
You guys are keeping me motivated here. So great to have you and brilliant to have this thread. Thank you.
Thanks, Guys! This has kinda turned into the John Stark Support Group thread. Didn't mean it to be. However, it has really helped and I REALLY appreciate it.
@Aleksandar - Thanks for the input will tray and not be so hard on myself in the future.
Also, took the advice and switched from real-time PACE on my 310xt to AVG PACE. Made a world of difference and I noticed I wasn't looking at mt Garmin every 5 seconds. :-) And as a FYI, the other 3 data fields I have are TIME, DISTANCE and AVG LAP.
Today I went and did the Supplemental workout the coach suggested the other day. Put on my Finnis Tempo Timer (bought a new one yesterday afternoon) and ran a gradual down hill for :30 and the run the gradual back up. I went without music so it was just the beeping. I can safely say my normal run cadence is slower than the 180 I was pacing at this morning. Especially coming back up. I guess I more like lumber up hills, but this morning I kept the cadence and motored backup. Totally new feeling and a nice Z1/Z2 run overall. need to work on that cadence on a regular basis.
John: I'm going to get a flip camera from another teacher today, I'll video my girl runner doing the form drills, it has really helped her economy and speed for that last mile of her 5ks. I'll try to commentate for you!!!! She does them well, I just don't know how to post them on this forum, I'm not to savvy with that stuff. I look at your graphs and wonder everyday how you did it. So, I can get your email, or someone can explain it to me. I'll be using a Flip camera I guess....
@John: have no idea if this will work, just wanted to post the video in the thread but I've spent an hour trying to do it and can't wait anymore, sometimes computers are slow! If it works, it is just a handful of drills, not complete, but ones I think are the most time effective, or best bang for your buck.
@Dan: that's great. I have seen and read about these drills but never did I realize that they fit togther like that into a single fluid stride. I got to finally go give them a try. Thanks! Run Strong
@Steven: I'm glad you like it, just told her we were doing a quick movie, no takes, just went! It was funny, and I told her what it was for and she got so embarrassed, but I tried to make her realize that it was a compliment to her. She has a big meet tomorrow, if they don't pay off, I won't tell you!!!!
After you do them a few times and get the hang of it, you feel 100% coordinated and fluid. Something to think about before interval work....
High school. She's a coach's dream, does everything you ask, never complains, and gets better! 50 is young brother, consistency does wonders for running!!!
Yes, I have ran every day since Monday.. and tomorrow a costumed 1/2 marathon. watched the video. Yes I do those drills. no I don't look like that.!! finally getting into a good routine and I spend the first 20' or so doing all manner of stuff like that and normally with walking briskly as it is cold and so are my muscles, I also do arm circles and move them all about too! hey it is early and nobody out, I love it!!.. and then I pick it up, then I take off my jacket and then I run! I have ran 9.5, 5, 4.5, 5.5, 3.5 . Monday's run was what I have named "Urban running". basically as I was running long, I would see something in the terrain and use it as part of those drills... hop up on a log and do some yoga, then hop off and run, do hip hikes on stairs, calf raises on curbs, come up to a park bench and do some tricep dips or some abs, then continue running, clamour up some RR ties, a rock wall, leap over the lines in the pedestrian walk and run up the bathroom stairs, charge up a hill and down it and generally I let the music go on shuffle and had a great time! as I always want to have quick reflexes and good balance. next day was a run with friends who run a bit faster than me, so I use them for my tempo!! and then the next day , WED was the windy, day that I got caught in a most torrential rainstorm so picked up my pace in that!!! and did a 1 mile avg 8:32 and didn't risk doing a 2nd one! today was a recovery run and I stayed "overdressed" so I would stay running easy. I love the song "Cupid Shuffle" a kids dance song but great for drills... take it to the left, and I lunge left and back and "two hops" and all that.. just hop and lunge to the music...smile. okay scooting, I will be Cleopatra tomorrow. and cold here so have to wear some layers underneath. thanks for video. m
@Marianne, those runs sound like a lot of fun. Good job. Mostly running alone here, at least quality runs, easy days, I have my wife along every other week, makes it more fun.
Today, 7am, Las Vegas, UNLV track, sunrise, beauty, Q3 completed 4 sets all I-pace, 2min(1min)/1min(30sec)/30sec(30sec), 8mi in 62min. Total for the week at 41mi. It was tough, had less than 48hrs since threshold run, cut this run a little short, so I don't over do it.
I can log another successful running week in my log. Race Day Apollo says I am getting faster, will see if that is true. Now 2 bike workouts left to close the week.
I had awesome weather everywhere this week except Seattle. I love fall for running, can't beat that. Hope all of you are enjoying this before it gets brutally cold, the other extreme brother of heat.
Dan - This video is great! Hi-five my fellow, Beth for her help!
Good work, everyone. I do love having this thread. Thanks for being here!
I just got run 13/13 in on Halloween. That has to be auspicious. Consistency is definitely making running feel easier and more fun. I've also learned skipping out on the stretching is just dumb. It also seems like if I had an achy run, I probably need to do an episode of television's worth of Triggerpoint time.
@Beth: 13 for 13, scary!!! Well done. My Beth kicked some ass today, she came in 5th in a very competitive league championship race today, I was very happy. And my girls team is only 8 pts out from qualifying for the state championship meet, so if all goes well Thursday, we may have a historic season! Oh yea, I ran today too! Easy jog of the course, but in my book right now, it all counts!!
Keep it up everyone, this thread is keeping me alive too, thanks John!
@Dan - Thanks for the video! I do most of those before track workouts, plus karaoke. What I have never done is put them all together like Beth did. I will tinker with that this week. Much appreciated. And tell Beth congrats for me.
@Aleksandar - Good work! You are our mobile running machine!
@Beth - 13/13!? GREAT work! 20/20 is right around the corner. But no pressure!
@All - Thanks back atcha also. You guys and gals are keeping me motivated and excited. Much appreciated.
Today I went and did the Warrior Dash with another Cub Scout dad. 5k of of jumping over cars, steep hill climbing, rope ladders, tires, steeples, hay bail mountains, tunnel crawling, mud slides, fire jumping and a mud pit? And in the end, hosed off with fire hoses! What a blast! I ran hard between obstacles. My HR was through the roof. Trail was rutted, steep, slippery, yada, yada, yada. IF had to be .95+ Can't wait to do it again.
Up to 27 miles this week. Will do a short run tomorrow to get to 30.
************************************************
Me and my buddy Dave post run. When in Rome . . . . .
The fire jumping! All those Duraflames are really hot!
That is barbed wire we are going under. That mud was WAY harder to go through than it looks.
A little MOJO for this group! Have no idea who these folks are. But I was thinking about y'all.
Well I ran just around 10.5 miles today. Felt ok but was tired. Sixth day in a row of work. Will be taking tomorrow off so will teat FTP Tuesday for the Nov OS. Run was 30' @ EP, 25' @ MP, 20' @ HMP then 15' @ whatever. Ended up averaging 8:30 for the whole run. Have to admit I walked for the first 2 minutes of the last 15'. It was a pretty bad hill plus I was adjusting my music selection. That's my story and I am sticking too it.
@Bill - I was hollering the whole way talking crap to my buddy who was always 40 yards or so behind me (until the last .75 miles or so when he lost steam). I would get to the top of the hay bail mountain or the rope ladders or wherever and call him out in front of everyone :-) Calling him somewhat dirty names. He would then respond back in kind. It was a blast! People around us loved it.
@Tucker - Way to go! And I was driving so an 80 oz. beer was not gonna happen.
I spent 3 hours working around the house this morning and my ankles hurt, my hami's locked up and my hips are sore. Guess I am paying the price for jumping, ducking, crawling, climbing yesterday. More than worth it!
I just saw your 2011 goal. It's a lofty aim for a big unit but if anyone can do it, it's you. Your fine spirit and great sense of fun will have you tap-dancing down the finish-line chute well under that magic 12:00 hour time. I'll be cheering you on the whole way!
Comments
Only 30 minutes today, my knees were killing me! Still, felt okay. Back at again tomorrow in the rain!
John, have you ever done form drills? I've been doing some with my runners with great results....
@Beth, Dan and Steve, great job all of you. Just keep it up. Dan, sub 8min is another good benchmark. We all have these little sub/mini....goals or performance achievements, love hitting those when I can.
@John, oh boy, we have to have a talk about this run.......Just kidding. I see this as a near perfect execution. Sometimes these flow and come easy, sometimes not and you may have to push trough. I would take this as a mini victory in my log. There is always a great tendency to over pace the early part of threshold runs and turns into an all out TT. People that tend to tie themselves to numbers (me, me, me) tend to want to stick to planned pace at all cost ignoring actual weather conditions. I have done that so many times as I would be for work one day in Miami, next day in Seattle, next Salt Lake, next Aspen........just check the temp and elevation changes. It is taking me 5 years to learn how to adjust target paces based on conditions.
I will further elaborate on Daniels words on "managing intensity". This is not accomplished by blindly sticking to the book target pace, but by using RPE, breathing patterns to establish your "today's pace". He goes on to talk about T-pace and I-pace running done in windy or hot conditions, later he talks altitude as well.
Foggy morning indicates high humidity, high humidity robs you from oxygen, therefore in simple terms your threshold is relatively lower as is your VO2max in given conditions. VDOT in this case gets adjusted down. How much? Takes time to learn, also application of his table for temp rise vs. pace correction, where you can use heat index vs. 60F to adjust pace. Clearly, you could have run this slower in those conditions and still incur full benefit of T-pace running. I actually find your pacing as I said nearly perfect. It may have looked ugly for you arriving there, but on paper looks great.
Keep it up and don't beat yourself up, you are doing great.
As far as my work, yesterday was supposed to be Q2 day, much like your day, 2x2mi(2min)+1mi@T-pace, 6:37. Ended the day in Long Beach, late at sunset, legs still tired from Tuesday bike ints, went out, strapped my headlight, onto the beach, legs just did not have it and decided to put it off for today. Did 6 mi in 47min and called it a day, enjoyed the views.
Today PM, Salt Lake City, 50F, calm, 4200ft elev. Came out with 10.5 mi in 1:15:00, hit all paces as planned, IF .88, rTSS 99.45. Finally I have learned to pace T-pace runs correct. I guess elevation+ the amount kept me scared so I held back and finished strong.
First 2mi avg 6:50, next 2mi 6:44, last 1mi 6:42. Yes, they were all slower than 6:37, but that is my pace at sea level. So Q2 complete, at 27mi, two more runs for a total 40mi, to include another I-pace run 2min(1min), 1min(30sec)......
You guys are keeping me motivated here. So great to have you and brilliant to have this thread. Thank you.
Thanks, Guys! This has kinda turned into the John Stark Support Group thread. Didn't mean it to be. However, it has really helped and I REALLY appreciate it.
@Dan - No, don't know what form drills are.
@Aleksandar - Thanks for the input will tray and not be so hard on myself in the future.
Also, took the advice and switched from real-time PACE on my 310xt to AVG PACE. Made a world of difference and I noticed I wasn't looking at mt Garmin every 5 seconds. :-) And as a FYI, the other 3 data fields I have are TIME, DISTANCE and AVG LAP.
Today I went and did the Supplemental workout the coach suggested the other day. Put on my Finnis Tempo Timer (bought a new one yesterday afternoon) and ran a gradual down hill for :30 and the run the gradual back up. I went without music so it was just the beeping. I can safely say my normal run cadence is slower than the 180 I was pacing at this morning. Especially coming back up. I guess I more like lumber up hills, but this morning I kept the cadence and motored backup. Totally new feeling and a nice Z1/Z2 run overall. need to work on that cadence on a regular basis.
Distance - 6.56 miles
Time - 1:00:53
rTSS - 91.3
IF - .857
NGP pace - 9:14
Elevation - +/- 698 ft.
John: I'm going to get a flip camera from another teacher today, I'll video my girl runner doing the form drills, it has really helped her economy and speed for that last mile of her 5ks. I'll try to commentate for you!!!! She does them well, I just don't know how to post them on this forum, I'm not to savvy with that stuff. I look at your graphs and wonder everyday how you did it. So, I can get your email, or someone can explain it to me. I'll be using a Flip camera I guess....
Dan
@John: have no idea if this will work, just wanted to post the video in the thread but I've spent an hour trying to do it and can't wait anymore, sometimes computers are slow! If it works, it is just a handful of drills, not complete, but ones I think are the most time effective, or best bang for your buck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qQIQ624M7s
Run Strong
@Steven: I'm glad you like it, just told her we were doing a quick movie, no takes, just went! It was funny, and I told her what it was for and she got so embarrassed, but I tried to make her realize that it was a compliment to her. She has a big meet tomorrow, if they don't pay off, I won't tell you!!!!
After you do them a few times and get the hang of it, you feel 100% coordinated and fluid. Something to think about before interval work....
Dan
I'll give it a go, but somehow I don't think this over 50 carcass has the supple fluid motion of a youthful athlete ... :-(
Run Strong
High school. She's a coach's dream, does everything you ask, never complains, and gets better! 50 is young brother, consistency does wonders for running!!!
I’d agree if you said 50ish is not old, but young…. That was a stretch 10 years ago and in a different lifetime…
@Marianne, those runs sound like a lot of fun. Good job. Mostly running alone here, at least quality runs, easy days, I have my wife along every other week, makes it more fun.
Today, 7am, Las Vegas, UNLV track, sunrise, beauty, Q3 completed 4 sets all I-pace, 2min(1min)/1min(30sec)/30sec(30sec), 8mi in 62min. Total for the week at 41mi. It was tough, had less than 48hrs since threshold run, cut this run a little short, so I don't over do it.
I can log another successful running week in my log. Race Day Apollo says I am getting faster, will see if that is true. Now 2 bike workouts left to close the week.
I had awesome weather everywhere this week except Seattle. I love fall for running, can't beat that. Hope all of you are enjoying this before it gets brutally cold, the other extreme brother of heat.
got it!!!! thanks IT man!
Dan - This video is great! Hi-five my fellow, Beth for her help!
Good work, everyone. I do love having this thread. Thanks for being here!
I just got run 13/13 in on Halloween. That has to be auspicious. Consistency is definitely making running feel easier and more fun. I've also learned skipping out on the stretching is just dumb. It also seems like if I had an achy run, I probably need to do an episode of television's worth of Triggerpoint time.
@Beth: 13 for 13, scary!!! Well done. My Beth kicked some ass today, she came in 5th in a very competitive league championship race today, I was very happy. And my girls team is only 8 pts out from qualifying for the state championship meet, so if all goes well Thursday, we may have a historic season! Oh yea, I ran today too! Easy jog of the course, but in my book right now, it all counts!!
Keep it up everyone, this thread is keeping me alive too, thanks John!
Dan
@John - Where is your beer?
John- looks fun
@Bill - I was hollering the whole way talking crap to my buddy who was always 40 yards or so behind me (until the last .75 miles or so when he lost steam). I would get to the top of the hay bail mountain or the rope ladders or wherever and call him out in front of everyone :-) Calling him somewhat dirty names. He would then respond back in kind. It was a blast! People around us loved it.
@Lynnette - GREAT JOB!
@Tucker - Way to go! And I was driving so an 80 oz. beer was not gonna happen.
I spent 3 hours working around the house this morning and my ankles hurt, my hami's locked up and my hips are sore. Guess I am paying the price for jumping, ducking, crawling, climbing yesterday. More than worth it!
Have decided to take today off and rest.
Happy Halloween and GO GIANTS!
I just saw your 2011 goal. It's a lofty aim for a big unit but if anyone can do it, it's you. Your fine spirit and great sense of fun will have you tap-dancing down the finish-line chute well under that magic 12:00 hour time. I'll be cheering you on the whole way!