As I read through the posts I saw a few questions that went unanswered.
@Rubin - There were a few people that used split plans beg/int or int/advanced last year. If you print off the workout outs or write them out then you can compare the beginner to intermediate running. Other solutions that I heard of was paring up with some who is on the beginner plan and having them send you the weekly schedule. I know that there has been discussion in the past on how to bridge this with technology but right now I don't think there is anything.
I'm not have issues going between forum pages.
@ Art - I notice on the trainer that I get a slight cadence drift when my tire heats up and perhaps the fluid as well. I don't think it should be extreme so a new trainer might be the answer.
@ Chris M - last year there was a longer option for those who could ride outdoors on Saturday. So no your not introuble unless you can't hit your targets on the few workouts.
Nov OS crew- I have asked this a few times but with no responses. I am learning about biking as I go along. I've noticed inside on the trainer I can hit my 95-100% at a higher gear but with a lower cadence like 73. I have been playing like one minute to do that and the next minute to drop to an easier gear and hit my 95-100%. Am I doing the right thing or???? I have heard that I should be training at a cadence of 85-90 but in my races over the past two years my cadence was 83-86. Man, if I could only crank at 73-80 and hot my goal power that seems like the right thing to do.
Just looking for some advice... I want to be sure I am getting all I can get out of my training and doing the best for the body. Thanks CREW
@ Gordon: thanks for the comment. Decided to do the big upgrade - threw my Blackburn trainer into the attic and bought myself a computrainer... all good now.
@ Carl: no expert here by any stretch but I have seen a wide array of opinions about what the "best" cadence is and whether or not there is even such a thing as a "best" cadence. Leaving that debtate aside (the best that I can) I think the best cadence for you is the cadence at which you operate the most efficiently for a given distance or type of event. How is that for helpfull ? All else held equal (which it almost never is) a higher cadence is more efficient (up to a point) than a lower cadence.
The hard thing when you are "between gears" vis-a-vis hitting 95-100% is that the harder gear feels like you are really grinding (cadence too low) and the easier gear feels like you are spinning too much (cadence too high)... big leg burn vs. sloppy feeling pedaling. FWIW and IMHO, it doesn't seem crazy to me to hit the harder gear for as long as you can (with the caveat that you don't hit such a low cadence that you feel like you might be hurting yourself... and I mean hurting yourself in a bad way) and then dropping down when you just can't take it anymore... evenutally you will be able to spin that harder gear at a higher cadence and for longer
Different people have different response to the trainer. I think on mine, there is a difference power response curve than riding outdoors, and the result is that I have a slower cadence on it than outdoors. I race well over 90 rpm outside most of the time, but a lot of my workouts on the trainer are a lot closer to the low 80s. As long as it doesn't get too out of hand, I don't think it's a problem However, don't get down to where you're doing like 65 rpm or whatever. A lot of people note that you can get higher power on a trainer at lower RPM, but it's not sustainable for longer intervals...so keep the work up to a reasonable rpm.
As I said, you'll get a variety or responses regarding indoor/outdoor cadence. Sometimes I wonder if this is due to trainers and their response curves as much as anything else. But your experience isn't out of line...just keep it in a reasonable range.
Well today's workout was definitely work. It sounds funny, but I ended up doing my bike intervals in my office at work, and no fan sure meant a big puddle!
10 min @ 1.04
10 min @ 1.04
15 min @ 0.89
15 min @ 0.88
Overall 75 min @ 0.89, TSS 99
Went over to the school track and found that the run required some focus. I tend to think it's because I was hot during the ride. I also found out that my footpod calibration is way off (about 7%!)
Ran 20 min. I knew the Garmin was off, so I hand timed two miles that should have been 7:15 and 7:00 respectively and I did them at 7:04 and 6:52. All I could do was guess pace by RPE, so that's not too far off.
Temps were good for getting outside today. I didn't even need arm warmers! I did my "work" on two different hills. One is slight grade and I can get about 15' in on it before it gets super steep. The other is a steeper pass, so you can go up one side, then turn around and do the other side. Love that we have such great hills here. Ride was long because intervals were longer to get to back to the bottom of the hills.
20' warmup the low-grade hill and back. Then I chose two mailboxes to define a course, so I can compare my speed later in the OutSeason. 1st z4: 10:19 Avg HR: 156 Rest: 8:34 2nd z4: 10:27 Avg HR 156 Rest: 8:41 1st z3: 13:11 Avg HR 143 Rest: 6:06 2nd z3: 11:09 Avg HR 140 Rest: 4:34 Total time: 1:45
Over time, and not enough z3 time because I ran out of hill. I think next time I'll switch the z3 and z4 hills. Nice to benchmark my speed now, since I don't have a power meter. If I have the 15% predicted power improvement then I should be able to do that stretch or road approx. less then 9 min in the spring!
Let me just say how much respect I have for those of you who do your work at night. I have the luxury of being able to do my work around 10-11 before going into the office. I just got done doing my bike after a day of shopping, yardwork, preparing dinnerand jogging along with my daughter while she rode her bike. Wow legs had nothing from all the running around I did.
1st 8' @ .967 2nd 8' @ .98 15' @ .835
Only one 15' and no brick as I'm running a 10k tomorrow.
oops!! From reading all the posts it sounds like I had the wrong minutes in the plan. Oh well good workout and felt almost as tough as the test with a run after but felt great today on the run and paces are getting easier to hold. I likey!!
1st 15' at 1.02 2nd 15' at 1.00 3rd 15' at .85 4th at .84
Run after for the way out was at 6:45 pace and the way back held 6:25 and really felt good. Legs are coming back.
I think I am getting closer to getting all blood levels back to normal. At testing time of OS I was at 75% of where the docs want to see my blood levels so feeling this good is telling me they are getting better and I'm not nearly as tired as I used to be after workouts. Yeah for the drugs working!!!
I did the bike as part of a longer ride that was planned before I signed up with EN. I skipped the run but will get on track (literally and figuratively) tomorrow to do the run workout. Numbers for today are below.
Not only did I get the work done today, but I could've ripped it harder and longer! Thx RnP for these rest days.
All targets hit, and hit early, and held.
But, most importantly for me, the brick run went great! Pain free today! Good PT yesterday, and reminded that I have to focus on cadence and short strides when I increase speed. I was shocked when I was able to hold target paces on the run, even with the hills. Will still be cautious tomorrow tho.
@Tucker- you wanna know the secret to the evening workout? Lot n lots o' RedBull. now, i might not sleep for a couple of days, but dangit, got those HR's up around 280!
hit the intervals well. can't seem to pace the run well yet. did it between TP and IP pace, but it still felt really manageable. i think i'm starting to get the running legs back. bike was harder today and legs are definitely fatigued.
I think I am getting closer to getting all blood levels back to normal. At testing time of OS I was at 75% of where the docs want to see my blood levels so feeling this good is telling me they are getting better and I'm not nearly as tired as I used to be after workouts. Yeah for the drugs working!!!
Bangor area set a new record high today of 62*, breaking the 1946 high of 61*. We don't often get nice weather in mid November, let alone it falling on a weekend. It was a cloudless day with a light NE breeze and low humidity. There was no way I was going to sweat and drool in the pain-cave on a day like today.
Had a great workout today, but not by the bike numbers I tested to. They are just too low. Z4/95-100% should be hard but it just isn’t so. My work-around? Using a WAG. Instead of 183, I’m gonna go with 200 for now, tempered by RPE as needed till I retest (maybe this coming week).
The other issue I had were the hills. Couldn’t figure out how to manage the power swings going up and down with the terrain.
On the Bike: FTP=200 (WAG)
#1 – 8:16 @ 1.053, Cd 90 #2 – 8:23 @ 0.996, Cd 90
#3 – 16:05 @ 0.921, Cd 89 over cooked these, oops #4 – 15:45 @ 0.958, Cd 91
Entire workout 1:19:23 TSS 116, NP 189, IF 0.944, VI 1.1, Cd 85
For the Run: Z2 @ 7:32; Z3 @ 7:14
10:25 @ 7:53 (uphill) 8:59 @ 6:43 (downhill)
From home the first 1.2 miles has 4 hills, all up. The first is the steepest and sets the stage. I know from running this route for years that my pace for this section is +/- :30 seconds depending on my direction. So, by my estimation I did hit my targets OK. Actually, the 6:43 pace coming back was almost easier than the 7:53.
Looking forward to the run tomorrow. I miss running……
Road bikes are slow! I rode mine yesterday so that a friend and I could do intervals at a more equal speed. I was way over my target wattage for the 2x8s, and still only went about 21mph vs 24 when I ride my tri bike.
Had a great brick session. Did on the trainer missed out on some good weather but oh well. #1 8' @1.03 #2 8' @1.1 #3 15' @0.9 #4 15' @0.87 Did both 15' sessions a lot harder than z3 but felt good during them. Might bump up the zones after 1 week more of this
Did a 3 mi run 7:50 , 7:35 , 7:15 . Legs are trashed after the last mile. Maybe I can use that as an excuse to get out of doing chores but might not fly with the spouse.
Well todays intervals were a disaster for me. Well not so much the intervals. I hit the MS: one 800 and 2 one mile repeats but just felt drained so I called it a day, stretched and drank a protein shake. I bothered me cause there was no warm up or cool down, just the intervals and nothing else left in the tank. I guess there will be days like this. Mentally it beats me up cause the running aspect of tri is my forte!!
Well snow flurries here in Iowa, cold and windy.....ENJOY
Well todays intervals were a disaster for me. Well not so much the intervals. I hit the MS: one 800 and 2 one mile repeats but just felt drained so I called it a day, stretched and drank a protein shake. I bothered me cause there was no warm up or cool down, just the intervals and nothing else left in the tank. I guess there will be days like this. Mentally it beats me up cause the running aspect of tri is my forte!!
Well snow flurries here in Iowa, cold and windy.....ENJOY
Did Saturday's wko today. Although I felt yesterday's run wko during my bike warm-up, I still hit the prescribed Z4 and Z3 zones.
Rather than running outside, I went from trainer to treadmill to minimize transition and better monitor my HR. Since I'm a new guy, I figure this is what most of the team does anyway based on weather, and training controls that are repeatable and measurable. Compared to last weekend brick run outside, the treadmill run seems slower at the same Z3 HR with an incline of 1.5% (minimum setting). Anyone else experience this?
Did 2 CX races today. Kind or a 30 minute interval, hour off and then a 45 interval. Sure felt hard. Lost the will to live a couple laps into the second race...
Comments
Been away for a few days but got Saturday's workout in
2X8 @ 1.0; 1.0
2X15 @ .85 ; .58
Run was hard especially for the first few minutes with the pace a little slow. I turn it around and ended up coming back a little too fast.
Entire workout (165 watts):
Gordon
As I read through the posts I saw a few questions that went unanswered.
@Rubin - There were a few people that used split plans beg/int or int/advanced last year. If you print off the workout outs or write them out then you can compare the beginner to intermediate running. Other solutions that I heard of was paring up with some who is on the beginner plan and having them send you the weekly schedule. I know that there has been discussion in the past on how to bridge this with technology but right now I don't think there is anything.
I'm not have issues going between forum pages.
@ Art - I notice on the trainer that I get a slight cadence drift when my tire heats up and perhaps the fluid as well. I don't think it should be extreme so a new trainer might be the answer.
@Jason ; - There have been a few discussion here on cadence check here for one of the more recent ones http://members.endurancenation.us/C...fault.aspx
@ Chris M - last year there was a longer option for those who could ride outdoors on Saturday. So no your not introuble unless you can't hit your targets on the few workouts.
Gordon
I have asked this a few times but with no responses. I am learning about biking as I go along. I've noticed inside on the trainer I can hit my 95-100% at a higher gear but with a lower cadence like 73. I have been playing like one minute to do that and the next minute to drop to an easier gear and hit my 95-100%. Am I doing the right thing or???? I have heard that I should be training at a cadence of 85-90 but in my races over the past two years my cadence was 83-86. Man, if I could only crank at 73-80 and hot my goal power that seems like the right thing to do.
Just looking for some advice... I want to be sure I am getting all I can get out of my training and doing the best for the body. Thanks CREW
@ Carl: no expert here by any stretch but I have seen a wide array of opinions about what the "best" cadence is and whether or not there is even such a thing as a "best" cadence. Leaving that debtate aside (the best that I can) I think the best cadence for you is the cadence at which you operate the most efficiently for a given distance or type of event. How is that for helpfull
The hard thing when you are "between gears" vis-a-vis hitting 95-100% is that the harder gear feels like you are really grinding (cadence too low) and the easier gear feels like you are spinning too much (cadence too high)... big leg burn vs. sloppy feeling pedaling. FWIW and IMHO, it doesn't seem crazy to me to hit the harder gear for as long as you can (with the caveat that you don't hit such a low cadence that you feel like you might be hurting yourself... and I mean hurting yourself in a bad way) and then dropping down when you just can't take it anymore... evenutally you will be able to spin that harder gear at a higher cadence and for longer
1) 1X8 , 229W (1.008)
2) 1X8, 226W (.998)
3) 1X15, 193W (.859)
4) 1X15, 187W (.824)
bTSS: 77.1
rTSS 22 (run paces spot-on courtesy of the treadmill)
Different people have different response to the trainer. I think on mine, there is a difference power response curve than riding outdoors, and the result is that I have a slower cadence on it than outdoors. I race well over 90 rpm outside most of the time, but a lot of my workouts on the trainer are a lot closer to the low 80s. As long as it doesn't get too out of hand, I don't think it's a problem However, don't get down to where you're doing like 65 rpm or whatever. A lot of people note that you can get higher power on a trainer at lower RPM, but it's not sustainable for longer intervals...so keep the work up to a reasonable rpm.
As I said, you'll get a variety or responses regarding indoor/outdoor cadence. Sometimes I wonder if this is due to trainers and their response curves as much as anything else. But your experience isn't out of line...just keep it in a reasonable range.
Wm
Well today's workout was definitely work. It sounds funny, but I ended up doing my bike intervals in my office at work, and no fan sure meant a big puddle!
10 min @ 1.04
10 min @ 1.04
15 min @ 0.89
15 min @ 0.88
Overall 75 min @ 0.89, TSS 99
Went over to the school track and found that the run required some focus. I tend to think it's because I was hot during the ride. I also found out that my footpod calibration is way off (about 7%!)
Ran 20 min. I knew the Garmin was off, so I hand timed two miles that should have been 7:15 and 7:00 respectively and I did them at 7:04 and 6:52. All I could do was guess pace by RPE, so that's not too far off.
Bike Run
20' warmup the low-grade hill and back.
Then I chose two mailboxes to define a course, so I can compare my speed later in the OutSeason.
1st z4: 10:19 Avg HR: 156
Rest: 8:34
2nd z4: 10:27 Avg HR 156
Rest: 8:41
1st z3: 13:11 Avg HR 143
Rest: 6:06
2nd z3: 11:09 Avg HR 140
Rest: 4:34
Total time: 1:45
Over time, and not enough z3 time because I ran out of hill. I think next time I'll switch the z3 and z4 hills. Nice to benchmark my speed now, since I don't have a power meter. If I have the 15% predicted power improvement then I should be able to do that stretch or road approx. less then 9 min in the spring!
Nice 15' run after z2/3.
1st 8' @ .967
2nd 8' @ .98
15' @ .835
Only one 15' and no brick as I'm running a 10k tomorrow.
1st 15' at 1.02
2nd 15' at 1.00
3rd 15' at .85
4th at .84
Run after for the way out was at 6:45 pace and the way back held 6:25 and really felt good. Legs are coming back.
I think I am getting closer to getting all blood levels back to normal. At testing time of OS I was at 75% of where the docs want to see my blood levels so feeling this good is telling me they are getting better and I'm not nearly as tired as I used to be after workouts. Yeah for the drugs working!!!
I did the bike as part of a longer ride that was planned before I signed up with EN. I skipped the run but will get on track (literally and figuratively) tomorrow to do the run workout. Numbers for today are below.
Rubin
All targets hit, and hit early, and held.
But, most importantly for me, the brick run went great! Pain free today! Good PT yesterday, and reminded that I have to focus on cadence and short strides when I increase speed. I was shocked when I was able to hold target paces on the run, even with the hills. Will still be cautious tomorrow tho.
@Tucker- you wanna know the secret to the evening workout? Lot n lots o' RedBull. now, i might not sleep for a couple of days, but dangit, got those HR's up around 280!
Great news!
Had a great workout today, but not by the bike numbers I tested to. They are just too low. Z4/95-100% should be hard but it just isn’t so. My work-around? Using a WAG. Instead of 183, I’m gonna go with 200 for now, tempered by RPE as needed till I retest (maybe this coming week).
The other issue I had were the hills. Couldn’t figure out how to manage the power swings going up and down with the terrain.
On the Bike: FTP=200 (WAG)
#1 – 8:16 @ 1.053, Cd 90
#2 – 8:23 @ 0.996, Cd 90
#3 – 16:05 @ 0.921, Cd 89 over cooked these, oops
#4 – 15:45 @ 0.958, Cd 91
Entire workout 1:19:23
TSS 116, NP 189, IF 0.944, VI 1.1, Cd 85
For the Run: Z2 @ 7:32; Z3 @ 7:14
10:25 @ 7:53 (uphill)
8:59 @ 6:43 (downhill)
From home the first 1.2 miles has 4 hills, all up. The first is the steepest and sets the stage. I know from running this route for years that my pace for this section is +/- :30 seconds depending on my direction. So, by my estimation I did hit my targets OK. Actually, the 6:43 pace coming back was almost easier than the 7:53.
Looking forward to the run tomorrow. I miss running……
Road bikes are slow! I rode mine yesterday so that a friend and I could do intervals at a more equal speed. I was way over my target wattage for the 2x8s, and still only went about 21mph vs 24 when I ride my tri bike.
#1 8' @1.03
#2 8' @1.1
#3 15' @0.9
#4 15' @0.87
Did both 15' sessions a lot harder than z3 but felt good during them. Might bump up the zones after 1 week more of this
Did a 3 mi run 7:50 , 7:35 , 7:15 .
Legs are trashed after the last mile. Maybe I can use that as an excuse to get out of doing chores but might not fly with the spouse.
Well snow flurries here in Iowa, cold and windy.....ENJOY
Why did you do no warm up or cool down?
Rather than running outside, I went from trainer to treadmill to minimize transition and better monitor my HR. Since I'm a new guy, I figure this is what most of the team does anyway based on weather, and training controls that are repeatable and measurable. Compared to last weekend brick run outside, the treadmill run seems slower at the same Z3 HR with an incline of 1.5% (minimum setting). Anyone else experience this?
Did 2 CX races today. Kind or a 30 minute interval, hour off and then a 45 interval. Sure felt hard. Lost the will to live a couple laps into the second race...
Missed updating over the weekend. Did Saturdays scheduled workout on Friday:
10' warmup
2 x 8' 95-100 FTP with 2' easy (241/243)
2 x 15' 80-85 with 2' easy(207/209)
5' cooldown
Warmup/cooldown/easy ~160
Still in rehab mode on run for another 2 weeks.
Cheers
Ian