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Ramping up FTP between test days???

Hello,

Newbie question here....please redirect if this has already been answered. Today's bike session didn't seem that hard to me....I'm just getting used to power so maybe my initial test was undercooked. Do people raise their FTPs throughout the OS? Do you wait for the test days, in this case seven weeks away and just hold the initial zones? Retest every couple of weeks? Just raise the FTP number by 5-10 and see how that feels?

Thanks,

Elly

 

Comments

  • Around here, you earn the right to bump your FTP with work and testing (esp if you're new to Power, your first few testing efforts are usually under potential).

    BUT, if you find it THAT easy. I'd say bump it up slightly on your own, each time. And the more you test, the closer you'll get (puking, yacking, unable to lift your leg over the bike after the test, etc) to your potential.

    Don't overcook yourself too early though, it's a long outseason, and there's lots of work to do!
  • Especially on the bike, you'll find that some people are able to bump up based on feel, while others need the test to tell them. The key is to pay attention to what your body tells you, and whether you can successfully do the workout THE NEXT DAY. Consistency is key in all of this, and no overachieving workout is worth needing to take a few days off to recover from it.

    Remember, you're much better off doing slightly too little work consistently than doing slightly too much work inconsistenly.

  • Elly,

    The OS feels easy for the first few weeks. But it's sneaky; it'll bite you in the a$$ if you try to out-think R&P. Better to be slightly undertrained than to be over-cooked at all.
  • Hey Mike, Scott and Bill,



    All good points. I like the idea of earning the right to bump up FTP as well as taking a wait and see longterm approach. I'll settle down to the work routine here and try to avoid the trap that I fall into every year: Ramping up until injury and/or chasing and switching plans with every new release of Triathlon magazine.



    Thanks again,

    Elly

  • Elly- a bit of a devil's advocate here, in that you mentioned you are "getting used to power". I take that as you are a power noob., If I am wrong, then I apologize.

    I did my 1st EN OS with HR and thought I worked hard.

    2nd EN OS and I had power. Within 10 days of testing, I was exceeding my FTP easily. When you are focusing on objective data, you improve quite quickly. Over 16 weeks I bumped my FTP by almost 40%. So I would say that if you are not going crazy with the jumps, then you can bump it a little. Your next test will tell you if you are in the right zip code. Take it slow. Rest as scheduled. Good luck.
  • Tending to agree with Michele. I've been on my Power Tap since 2004, and looking at your current FTP of 164, I think you've got more room to roll the dice than if you were at 250 for example. Its early, with a lot of time to re-think. If it were me, I'd add a little, say 5-10 watts and see how it goes. I use my Hr eas a secondary marker and I know whether I'm ready to move up or not based on the two. Now if your Hr was way high during your 164 test, then thats another story. Just my opinion.
  •  Elly did you test indoors or outdoors?  I tested indoors, and am finding that I am able to ride outdoors at more than 10% higher wattage than the test showed with the same level of effort.  

  • I think Michelle has an interesting point. If you have a ballpark time that you have achieved on good bike splits from Oly's or halfs, perhaps you could do a little fishing around to see what people who are near that time do, as far as W/kg at FTP. That might give you a *very* ballpark estimate of where you ought to be. It won't tell you if your test is 5-10 W short, but it might tell you your test is 30-50 W short.
  • @Michelle, Dave, Chris, and William. Thanks for the feedback. I'm riding indoors on a trainer. I'll think I'll take it on the conservative side now, letting my power for the workouts drift to the top of the zone, but stay close. For week eight, I'll give it everything for the FTP test and see where I really am. The first bike test was my first day with the PT, so I'm sure I have tons of room to improve with more experience. Thank you again...I really appreciate the depth of the haus.
  • What worked really well for me last year is program my CompuTrainer to add 1 watt to each workout. For example, with my FTP of 220 this week I am planning

    Tuesday = 221
    Thursday = 222
    Saturday = 223

    Using ERG mode on the CompuTrainer you can program it in exactly. Same principal as progressive overload in weight training. I can't tell the difference between the workouts (just 1 watt!) but over 1 month that is a gain of 20 watts. Of course if you have to be careful and watch burning out. But it never happened to me last year. Over 20 weeks I got a heck of a gain on my FTP last year.

    Just my 0.02.
    Mike.
  • For my 3x8 that I did Monday (instead of scheduled Tuesday), I do my first one at FTP, then - attempt to - ramp up 5-10w on each successive interval. For me, once my muscles get warmer, it's easier to hit the targets.

    I also attribute this slight increase to me trying the "sweet spot" between my trainer/road-bike FTP compared to my outside/road-bike FTP. We've guesstimated in here 10% difference between inside and outside, but I'm trying to be more scientific (no, I'm not a scientist and I do not play one on TV) and empirically-based about it.
  • Elly,

    Last year was my first year with power and like you my first ride was at test.  Given my HR I knew that I had given a very hard effort and was close to my FTP.  I also was only doing the bike workouts and still overcooked myself getting aggressive with the early workouts. 

    If you really feel that you under achieved on the test you could retest.  I'm not sure which level you are on beg, int, or advanced but when we get to the 2X10 or 2X12's you should start to feel the workouts.  If not then I would consider a bump or a test.

    Gordon

  • I agree with bumping up bit by bit.



    Here is another thing to consider. There is a testing protocol that has you doing 1x5 min all out, 5 min recover, 1x20 all out for FTP. Take that and subtract 5% and you get an approximation of your FTP.



    I was new to power and intervals last off season. And during that time my FTP jumped from near 240 up to 320. It wasn't because I improved that much it was because I ddin't know how to hurt.



    At one point I got fed up with knowing my tests were too low and being able to really crank out watts in the last 4-5 minutes of the test because I had paced too easy. I think at one point when my FTP was 299 or something I basically told myself I was going to do the testing protocol and hold 315 watts for the first 10 minutes and see if I could hold on. Obviously that is a big one-time jiump, it had only been a couple weeks from the previous test too. I didn't expect to hold on...but I did. And it hurt. I've never hurt that bad. But I held on. And I surprised the hell out of myself.



    After that, my intervals were not that easy.



    One of the most valuable things for me was learning what pain really was and equating that to a wattage.



    Since then I've learned that the 2x20 test hurts even more. HURT SO GOOD!

     

    I bring this up because a 1x20 interval is something you could potentially fit into the RnP plan.  I'd do it before a day off so you don't damage other workouts.  In fact you may want to do it on a thursday morning and then have the rest of that day off, friday off, and maybe do your saturday workout later in the day to allow ample recovery.

  • Elly - I am having a very similar experience and I posted about in other places on these forums. I am also brand new to power, and the test was my second ride with power ever. I did one "pre-test" (2 x 12' all out) a couple of days prior to the real test to try and get a feel for what kind of ballpark wattage I should shoot for. I felt like I worked hard on that test, and my HR indicated I certainly did (although as you would see in my other postings I had a good dosage of caffeine and did the test in the afternoon - both of which likely raised my HR over my usual AM, pre-caffeine rides).

    So I thought I tested good, but the 2 x 8's just don't seem that hard. Certainly not coming close to killing me like I've read about for others. And the 15' intervals at 85% are also not too hard. And my HR stays at least 10+ bpm too low even at the end of the last interval (granted - a non-caffeinated HR).

    However, I think after reading replies to your post, and to mine, I am going to stick with the zones I have for now, and see how I do during the longer intervals. There is plenty of time to bump things up, and lots of opportunity for true pain to come I'm thinking...
  • Then again - Eric makes a good point. What to do, what to do...
  • Looking ahead we have 3 x 10's in week three. That could help me decide whether to bump up or not.
  • Posted By Jim Daley on 10 Nov 2010 11:22 AM



    So I thought I tested good, but the 2 x 8's just don't seem that hard. Certainly not coming close to killing me like I've read about for others. And the 15' intervals at 85% are also not too hard. And my HR stays at least 10+ bpm too low even at the end of the last interval (granted - a non-caffeinated HR).



    However, I think after reading replies to your post, and to mine, I am going to stick with the zones I have for now, and see how I do during the longer intervals. There is plenty of time to bump things up, and lots of opportunity for true pain to come I'm thinking...



    @Jim - I think what you need to remember is that you are only doing 2 x 8' at FTP which you just calculated based on a 2 x 20'.  Of course it will feel easier than that.  I'm sure the first 8' of the test didn't feel too bad right?

    That being said, if you have no trouble adding 5% or so I don't see what the harm is especially since some of us may not have been in the greatest bike shape coming into the OS.  The only real worry is as Mike says, you need to be able to hit hte next days workout.  Plus this is only week 2, there are lots of weeks ahead.

    @Mike - I find your approach interesting.  My question is what is the limit?  How did it translate over to the road?  What was your jump last year? 

  • Posted By Jim Daley on 10 Nov 2010 11:37 AM

    Looking ahead we have 3 x 10's in week three. That could help me decide whether to bump up or not.



    This is a good idea.  But honestly ride how you feel.  If it seems really easy you should ride a little harder.  Last season as people were reporting their workouts you would see some IF of 1.1 for the intervals as the weeks went on.  You are getting stronger and building into the next test. 

    Oh the 3 x 10s are fun but it just gets harder from here on out.  I just checked the weeks after the VO2 block.  2x20' one week, 3x15' another, 2x20' another.  This OS looks a lot harder to me than last season.  I do not remember doing 2 x 20' right after the VO2 Max block. Same level plan too, intermediate.  Gonna be fun.

  • Yes it will be fun... I'd guess we're going see big gains regardless of how much we over think these easy 2 x 8 days!
  • @Tucker - I started the OS at 231 (both indoors and out actually, did the test both ways and got exactly the same number).
    Did not get a linear path because took 2-3 weeks off during Jan to have a ski vacation in Lake Placid with the family.

    But still, ended up going from 231 to about 260 by the end of the OS (even after having to "restart" a bit) to a few weeks after the OS testing at 280 outdoor. But there is definitely a limit I think which is why you need to be careful. At some point it might catch up. But it didn't for me last year possibly due to the break.

    The main thing that makes this work is the very small increments and the fact that a computrainer allows you to pre-program these in. You may notice 5 watts. But you'll never notice 1 watt.

    It worked really well for me last year so I'm giving it another go this year.
  • One way to eliminate any uncertainty would be to just 'test' again next week. The 20x2 is challenging, but can be repeated more often than every 4 weeks without dire consequences.
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