intervals vs z3 remaining effort
Howdy all...happy Friday.
So week 2 is almost in the books for us Nov OS folks and I have noticed something....
I love the intervals. They hurt, but are fun and interesting. (to me). But the Z3 for the remaining effort kinda sucks. I don't dig it. It seems boring to me. Especially when I've done my w/u for 10 min, 2x8 and still have 35 minutes left. Mentally I can get myself up for the main set...no problem. but 30 minutes of z3 is kinda blah...and it hurts too.
I just find it very challenging to get myself going again for the remaining Z3 efforts at the end.
Anyone have any tricks they use? I was thinking about splitting the Z3 pieces into 2...one at the start as part of my warmup and then one at the end. Hell...I might be willing to throw in another z4 effort to replace the z3 stuff. I'm not saying that's a good idea...just that it sounds more fun/interesting to me. :-)
Comments
I'm a rookie here, so TIFWIW...
I do the full warm up...10' + 3x3' @ ;Z3. that leaves me, once the set is over with, with about 20-ish minutes of Z3. Much better than 35!
And, for me, there's no way around it - I hate the Z3. Much harder than Z4 efforts. There's no way around it for me
YMMV.
I do the same as Dave. I will do 10 or 15 minute intervals of the zone 3 stuff with a short rest.
Same here, I spend about 18 min in the WU with a 3X2'(1') Z3 and about 24-25' Z3 on the back end. If you have been hitting your targets all week, the cumulative load does make the Z3 period hard.
That said, I think the Z3 period is crucial for mental toughness and practice at staying focused, much needed attributes for successful racing.
Sounds like you guys are right on track!
For me the biggest challenge with joining EN was to wrap my head around z3 (85%) work. Other plans I had followed had very little time at z3, but in EN we spend a TON of time here as it is the sweet spot where you can do a ton of work without requiring a ton of volume or recovery.
It's not esay, but it works and as Rich says: Work Works.
Eric,
The 85% stuff at the end of an OS workout is just plain, tough. Whatever tips or tricks you can get to work, use them. One thing to be careful for is not to overshoot your FTP sets. They're written as 95-100% but it's very common to see folks posting results early in the OS where their FTP sets are above 100%.
For me, I found that once I completed the FTP sets, recovered and jumped into the 85%, it was all mental. Once I realized that, I'd do things like break it up into 10, 15, 20' intervals, stand up for a minute, etc.
When I wanted to bag it, I'd tell myself, ok next song, then the next song, etc until I completed the workout. I also knew I wouldn't want to post that I quit on a workout. Think about it, it's an hour. A measly hour. How many 3 and 4 hour hard rides have we all done over the course of the year. Who can't hold 85% effort to round off an hour workout if you look at it that way, right?
I fondly remember many an 85% effort after hard intervals where I just wanted to mail it in, but I knew it wouldn't make me stronger, so I just did my best to finish. It's all part of the mental six pack you build during the OS.
Good luck,
Dave
That said, if you have the time, you'd be well served to stick to the Z3 as perscribed and break it up mentally the way Matt & Dave suggest (which I think is what many of us do). Some of the absolute hardest riding you will do under an EN HIM/IM plan is the Sunday "easy" ride a Z3. Or the "remainder at Z3" riding at the end of your Saturday intervals. So getting a little practice now on how you are going to mentally break up that chunk and get through it will be helpful to you once you roll out of the OS.
When you are outside you can let terraine naturally help break up the Z3 stuff (I'll ride 80% to the stop sign in 4 miles, soft peddle for a minute or two, then pick it up again). But on the trainer you don't have those natural breaks. So just create them for yourself.
Another trick you'll Learn to Love is using that 80-85% time to chase session TSS or IF. If I'm doing a similar workout week over week, topping last week's number(s) is a tremendous motivator. I use the time at 80-85 to make that happen.
(extra EN bonus points for those who have live IF data fed to them during the session ... I don't, but I'm slowing coming onside to the value of that feature).
I think the other thing I can do is write out my plan for the z3 work before getting on the bike. I just find the "remainder at z3" to be sucky.
It isn't a question of time for me. I could easily fit double the workout into my schedule...not that I'd want to at this intensity. It is just more not being bored on the trainer and getting the work in. I want to ... just struggle a touch with it.
Thanks all
For me. I will rarely quit the main set, I'll keep going until I absolute nuke myself. However, Z3 I would quit if my playlist started to buffer. It doesn't take much for me to quit the Z3(85%). Starting last year, I began doing do the Z3 stuff first. It forces me to make it to the START of the Z4 stuff. I feel even more warmed up then before. I take 2-3' light spin between Z3 and starting the Z4 stuff.
Once I finish the MS I'm done and it feels so good to be done. I spin it out until I've reached my KJ goal for the day, usually 4-5 mins.
I'm not the type to have music on my indoor spins particularly - I usually put on something on the TiVo. Maybe this sounds crazy, but a couple of episodes of the Daily Show and/or Colbert is perfect. I don't have to pay any attention to it during the hard work, but it's amusing enough for a giggle during the warmups and 85% stuff.
As others have alluded to, the outdoor 85% stuff is an entirely different story. That much, I have a full season's experience with. You may fight it then, but it will be for different reasons.
I am new to power and trainer, and only recently been biking - like 2 seasons, so I really dont have much skill on the bike. I came to mutisport from marathoning as a "Oh I want to do that too". Maybe that is an advantage because in running you can't soft peddle and you certainly can't coast. It is al grind - all day - up hill and down - hour after hour. You can't excape it so you learn to crave it.... sick, i know.
My problem is that I did my FTP test in the AM - a place I never do my workouts. I thought I could force myself to get with the program and just suck it up. Not going to happen. I thought I had a good test - legs on fire midway in the first 20, drooling and dry heaves by mid second 20. I was so wiped out that the nausea lingered for the rest of the day. FTP @ 183.
Last night my 2x8 were at just over 100% but I had to stare at the watts to hold them down. I was trying to stick to the plan and the numbers. Finally free of the MS, I tried to settle in on Z3 @ 150 but just couldnt get it there. EIther too high or too low. So I decided to ignore the Joule and just go by RPE. At the end of the planned 40', I really wanted to keep going - kind of like when I run and I can't seem to get myself to turn around and go home. I did stop, it was 10PM and I needed to eat dinner. My self-selected effort was @ 167. The thing is, I really liked that 40' the most out of the entire workout. How sick is that?
Try doing your workouts on rollers. That is FAR from blah.
After my "beginner's luck" roller session where everything seemed easy, I've fallen off the eMotions at least once on every indoor session since. You have to pay very close attention when on rollers, and nothing seems easy. A couple of reaches for your bottle during that Z3 session will be very exciting for you.
I don't mind the 85% work, but agree that boredom can take it's toll and you lose focus, slack off. I actually am better at staying with the 85% on the drainer than I am when I ride outside.
My tricks for inside:
- if it is just rounding out the hour, I rarely have more than 12 minutes left. (15 minute warm up, usually 30+ minutes of FTP work and rest, then some 85% and 2 minute cool down.) This is easily manageable. I will stand up at least once. I have TV and music going, always something there to distract.
-the few times i have been forced onto the drainer on the long weekend rides: Play with the gears. During IM training this summer, there were 3 weekends that I went to visit family and did abridged versions of the weekend rides. For Saturday I did the MS of intervals and enough 85% to round out 1.5-2 hours. Sunday's ride was all 85% for 1.5 hours maximum. Once warmed up I would shift gears every 2 minutes. My goal was to hold my watts. It kept me from getting bored, but 2 minutes at a time allowed me to pay attention to something more than the clock. I'd stay in the large front chain ring and every 2 minutes shift harder on the rear. My cadence slowed way down. It was like trying to hold your watts when hill climbing, then easier all the way back, standing for a minute here and there and taking a 1 minute spin break every 15 minutes. Sometimes I was having so much fun with my "cadence challenge" I only felt the need to spin easy every 30 minutes. Previously I said I got the idea from John Stark, but he didn't remember saying this, so I don't know where I read it.
We have some sick ideas of what constitutes fun anyway.
Good luck!
Completely agree. Since I'm still riding outside I don't have nearly as much mental drain for the time, once it gets colder here in Chicago I will be inside again. THAT is when I will start to see the mental part....
on a positive side, in a month or so you won't be doing 8 min intervals but 20 minutes ones. That doesn't leave much time for Z3.
It is tough--I just start to hate the bike at this point. My mental game is anyone can do anything for 15 minutes..... Anyone can do anything for 14.75 minutes....