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Aero position, the indoor trainer and threshold intervals

Seven weeks in, and I seem to be adapting to the haus rules and the OS program except for one thing.  I find holding my aero postion during threshold intervals impossible.  I can do the zone 3 work without feeling weird.  My bike fit "seems" confortable when I am hammering on the road.  That said, I plan to have my fit re-assessed.

The "weird" sensation is that I feel like I have hold my aero bars tight, and force myself down onto my armrests (creating tension in my upper back) to apply the required force to the pedals.  In Newtonian physics terms, this would make sense, as an equal and opposite force to that applied to the pedals is required to prevent lift-off.

So the questions are:

  1. Is this a common sensation that should be considered normal, yet not experienced when riding on the road because more muscles are engaged for balance?
  2. If not, does it suggest an obvious fit issue? ie Should I be more forward, with lower front end, and more body weight applying down-force.

I realize that it may not be too important to get the work done in the aero position, but I would like to see if I can tweak my position before getting re-fit.

Comments

  • I rode 95% of the Ironman Wisconsin course in the aero position and can't last 5 mins in the aero position on the trainer. My fit is great. Its just not comfortable, you'll have plenty of time to adapt to the aero position when the warm weather returns and you return to the roads, imo.

  • Riding aero while on the trainer is a different animal than riding aero outdoors. When you're riding outdoors you have the air that you're pushing through acting like a cushion, supporting your upper body. Riding indoors you are supporting a greater percentage of your body weight on your elbows, putting more stress on your neck and shoulders.

    By all means try to get as much of your work done in the aero bars as you can, but you can be really happy that your position will be much more comfortable when you get back outside.
  • IMHO, there's absolutely no reason to do the OS in the aerobars, unless you like riding in them and are comfortable in them (or you're jumping out of the OS into an early season race). For many of us, it's not nearly as comfortable (since the bike doesn't move underneath you at all), so we choose to ride on the horns or on road bikes.

    Purely from a vanity perspective, I like riding the road bike, because the numbers are bigger. Makes me feel better about myself.

    @Bernie, I have heard a lot of reasons proposed for why the trainer is less comfortable, but you get credit for being the first person to suggest lack of wind taking weight off the elbows!
  • What seems to work good for me is to do either the work or the 85% at the end in the aerobars. This way I get some time in the aerobars but I'm not forcing myself to stay there for a full hour.

    Like others have said we spend all summer and all of race prep in the aerobars so I like to at least sit up during the OS.
  • Agree with the guys..spent all last OS on top on trainer and it had no adverse affect on power/speed once outdoors and racing.
  • i'm hanging out in my aerobars for the OS as i was just not able to make the transition last year from the road bike to the tri bike. don't know why, it just happened. i do sit up in between sets, but everything else is still aero. i find that i'm very relaxed in my upper body in my aero position. my hands basically just lay on the bars with no tension, so i'm assuming that's translating into using my core as the anchor for my pedal stroke. i can be this relaxed on the road as well, which helps me not fight the bike, especially when it's windy.
  • I'm with Keith. I had a road bike for my 1st tri and then bought my Dual and rode it exclusively for 2 years. I sit up in between sets also but I just seems natural for me to be aero.
  • I guess I am a different animal. My riding is always in aerobars outdoor, indoor, year around except when during recovery I hydrate in between intervals. I also ride pretty steep, 15.5cm drop, I am 5'9". It always feels comfy and the only way I like it. I am sure it makes no difference on race day performance. You are good either way.
  • I'm with Keith: always in the aerobars for the intervals, sit up between sets, ensure there is no tension in my hands or forearms, just trying to train the same way I'm going to race. I'm fairly light (147), but my body weight seems to be sufficient to keep my in my seat while I pedal. Could it make a difference to focus on pedaling "in circles" with both legs rather than focusing just on the downstroke?
  • This will be my first year riding with power and I just got a road bike (only had a tri bike), so I opted to test on my road bike and will change over to my tri bike in after OS. Glad to read that it should be okay to do this. I am assuming we would test again at the end of OS and at that time I would use my tri bike to get some numbers for it, as I understand they will be different?
  • @ Brenda- yes, you'll test at the end of the OS. Plus if you're doing the OS inside you will have to test again outside anyway to get your outdoor FTP. I'm assuming Ontario = OS on the trainer image
  • After talking with a few people I've been doing all my intervals in the aero position.
    The way I see it your aero FTP is your worst case scenario. It is almost always lower than when you sit up and open the hip angle. I want to be using that lower number as my base so that in races I'm not expecting more watts than I can reasonably produce.

    Last year I sat up all the time not knowing better. And by that I often had my hands on the pads, not the bars. So I was sitting up really straight. Had an early season race and hadn't been riding in the bars much and was really disappointed with my results.

    So I ride aero now.
  • No aero for me at all during OS. Too uncomfortable on the drainer. We'll all get a chance to test at the beginning of the race prep phase, so ifyou're worried about your power being different when you're outside or riding aero vs. inside on the horns, don't worry about it. You'll have a valid test # to use in those early season races. I've always tested in the bars outside and sitting up inside. Typically I see a 10% bump outside even though I'm aero. From the looks of it in this thread it seems like it can work either way, so do what's comfortable and lets you get the work done.
  • Mentally I find the aero position indoors to be a huge bummer. I'm comfortable generally aero, though inside I get some tightness in the hips - I'm assuming cause the bike doesn't move with me- but the fact that I can't hammer as much and that I know I'm not getting any of the aerodynmaic benefit really bums me out. So I like riding in the hoods so that I make sure to hit my numbers and get the work done. Takes away a little of the drainer feeling putting up the higher numbers!
  • Last few years for the OS, I was on the tri bike on the indoor trainer. I tried to do aero for the FTP intervals. Almost impossible for me to do. Painful, and couldn't hold watts. I did aero for the 85% (or less), including WU.
    Another thing, at least for me, last year, was my tri bike indoor FTP was about 250w, tri bike outdoor FTP was 300w+. So, it was really disheartening to see such low watts when I knew I was capable of so much more.

    This year I'm on a road bike for the OS, same indoor trainer. MUCH easier to hit and exceed targets - as well as easier to see the TV for distraction.
  • For me, Even if it is just mental, I like the idea of training my body for the aero position. Neck, shoulders, forearms, core, etc. From a lot of the responses here is seems like there isn't much difference in the muscles used between sitting up and aero, but I like knowing that if there is a slight difference I will still be good to go. Plus I find myself fantasizing (or maybe hallucinating from the pain) about riding in a race and it makes me push harder image
  • I'm doing my power intervals in aero. Last winter, I wasn't on an OS plan, but I did do some interval work and measure my FTP (using the Coggan test). I did it upright because I liked the higher numbers, which appeared to be driven mostly by air movement (i.e., somewhat easier breathing). But it killed me mentally when I went 'down' again and I instantly lost 10% of my FTP. :-(

    So, whether it really matters in the long run, I don't know, but since I'm comfortable working in my aero position, that's what I'm doing. I do sit up for rest times (after all, just catching my breath) and often a bit here and there during the 85% time.
  • I've been lurking and listening here for a while and dicided I should toss in my 2 cents.....



    Let me start by saying I am new to power and new to the trainer so my thoughts are based on logic and not experrience.......



    If everyone agrees there is a loss of power when in aero when compared to upright, then it beggs the question to I want to look at bigger numbers or train-up my lower numbers? It seems to me that lower watts in aero is due to ineffiency in biomechanics. Isnt it easier to grind up a hill sitting as compared to staying in aero? If that is true, doesnt it also make sense to train the body in this weaker position? The longest portion of the day is the bike, and being aero as much as possible improves the split, why not train to improve the aero watts?



    Like I said - no experrience here... just logic



    Run Strong

  • I take the Prof Jenks line....or he takes mine. Last year same thing. Did them upright, it sucked when I went outside and the watts fell. I try and do them aero, who knows it is all one big science experiment my small sample size
  • The watts do fall a bit when you first get outside and retest in aero, however, my numbers eventually came back up after a couple of weeks of the in-season where you definitely spend pretty much all your time in aero.
  • Posted By Aleksandar Tasic on 17 Nov 2010 07:44 PM

    I guess I am a different animal. My riding is always in aerobars outdoor, indoor, year around except when during recovery I hydrate in between intervals. I also ride pretty steep, 15.5cm drop, I am 5'9". It always feels comfy and the only way I like it. I am sure it makes no difference on race day performance. You are good either way.





     

    Sorry to derail the thread ... but thats impressive drop especially to ride 100% on the trainer.  I'm at 13.5 at 5'8" and thought I was steep.  I can hold the position all day long outside with no issue, but inside jsut seesm so much harder.

  • On the trainer I always ride aero during all the intervals (z3-5) and upright during recovery and none z3-5 portion of the warm up.
    Personally I don't think there is a whole lot of benefits to go aero or not but I like the cue that when I am in the aero position then it is go time! i.e. time to focus and do work...
    Prolly a little silly but whatever you need to get the work done, right?

  • Thank you all for your input. It is appreciated and seems to be very individual. Perhaps the big science experiment needs some formalizing.......
  •  @Matt, just a brief response. I am very flexible, well above average and it took 3 years to arrive at that position, with a specific saddle. I could not do this with many saddles. Now, it is a joy either out or on the trainer. I am a nose rider though.

    Did not mean to take away from the thread. More than happy to share fitting experience to arrive at this. 

  • The effectiveness of training on aerobars vs base bar is dependent on how you are positioned on your bike, and therefore varies greatly from person to person.  Ideally you need to assume the same hip/pelvic angle "sitting up" on the trainer as you would in the aero position.  The easiest way to accomplish this is to ride a slack angled road bike while on the trainer, but as other people have mentioned, the best way is to do your hard intervals in the aerobars.

     

    Bernie

  • I do them upright. My bike is so wicked aero that it's no fun when the bike is locked down on the trainer. I wouldn't get your bike fit dialed in for the trainer...and I don't mind the higher/lower numbers when I get outside. I find that upright FTP is a great target to aim for in my aerobars!
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