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Body Composition: the other side

This week in the October OS plan Patrick explained his approaches to body composition.  However, the point of veiw was based on trying to cut weight.  Most of the discussions in the forums are about trying to trim down the weight.  My concern is just the opposite.  I am currently 165lbs, 5 foot 11 inches tall with a pretty lean body type, some muscle. 

Does anyone else worry about losing to much weight while training for an Ironman?? 

 I'm not sure I really want to go from 165 down to 155lbs once the OS ends and the higher volume work begins.  I feel like I would be skin and bones.  I'm able to maintain my current weight by eating healthy foods throughout the day in addition to Breakfast/lunch/dinner.  I Also have the occasional bagel and peanut butter to add to the calories for the day... If i skp a meal for any reason the weight comes off pretty quick.  Sometimes have to supplement with Ensure type products.

Anyone else share this issue?  any other strategies for maintaining weight? Should I be 155lbs for race day? Or am i just lucky to have this issue and should shut up about it. 

Comments

  •  Yea dude, be happy!!!  The only thing that affects my weight is diet.  I can do double sessions 3x's a week and single for the other 4 of good workouts and not lose a thing, but I can still gain because I can't put the fork down!  Example, last week was the first time in years I ran 7 times, I actually gained 2 pounds, go figure.  The only thing I can figure is I eat too much!  Sorry I was of no help at all, but I hope it works out for you.  Enjoy being cut!

    Dan

  • Nate, All things being equal, the general statement for IM weight is lighter is faster.   One of the best tests for body comp is the easiest – look in the mirror and if you see a lean mean EN race machine ( by your standards) then you are where you need to be!

    Once I hit my race weight, I just eat everything in sight during the volume build phase with a heavy emphasis on making sure I get enough protein.  I’m an older dude, 54 so keeping muscle mass on is more of a chalange.

    I also am 5’ 11” and have hit 165 during recovery from Kona. My race weight is 155. Working on getting back down there before the OS ends. Best of luck to you!!!
  • I think I wouldn't worry about being "skin and bones." Obviously on the bike a lower weight is generally good as it raises your w/kg and on the run you are carrying less around. I'd only become concerned if you were noticing excessive amounts of fatigue building up indicating that you aren't getting enough fuel for your workouts (vs. normal fatigue that comes with training for long course). Other than that it might just be how your body responds to training naturally.
  • thans Matt and Jennifer...
  • What do you think/believe about homeostasis? That your body should do whatever it can to maintain healthy muscle/fat ratios that it needs for maintenance - and performance? (I'm oversimplifying)
  • Nate- my hubby is 6'2 and under 165lbs. And he doesn't do any tri stuff. His reasons for being that slim have to do with some medical issues he deals with and it kinda scares me to think of how slim he'd get if he actually did participate in endurance training- not because of what he'd look like, but because it could be dangerous for him dealing with the med condition.

    My point here is that the most important thing for you to be concerned with is if you are healthy. If you drop down to 155 leading into race day but you feel strong and healthy then you are probably OK- don't sweat it. But if you are getting sick a lot, feeling run down, and unable to get through workouts (or even just the day), then you need to figure out how to better balance the cals in/out and nutrients you are getting.

    Oh- and second most important is what your wife thinks :-) You wanna stay sexy for her too!
  • @scott-not sure..
    @nemo-Great point about looking at my energy levels and how often I feel sick as a que to not getting enough nutrition. Right now I feel fit and fast, minus a few occasional aches and pains. Love the idea of just using the, "what the wife thinks" as my guide...you are too funny.
  • @Nate: Hi! Yes, you can lose too much weight. Less weight does not always = better performance. Being underweight can cause all sorts of issues including chronic injuries and fatigue. I have had clients that have issues with this. One was IM distance triathlete who could not maintain his weight and kept getting nagging injuries including stress fractures. Once we started working together, I estimated his calorie needs at 7000+ calories per day. And, he didn't like to eat. He wanted to use all supplements. We were finally able to compromise. I found a supplement that was about 6,000 calories per serving (I think it was 4 scoops). This allowed us to fill in the gap between what he would eat and what he needed. He gained a few pounds, the injuries stopped, and his performance and daily energy improved.

    So, my questions to you would be: how do you feel on a daily basis? how is your performance? any nagging injuries happening?

    If you are concerned, I'd suggest getting your body composition tested using a BodPod or underwater weighing. I'd also say to get you resting metabolic rate measured. If you need help finding local places for this, let me know.

    Hope this helps!
  • Penny, thanks for the reply...
    at 165lbs I currently feel pretty good and my performance is increasing. A few small injuries along the way but they have gone away with ice or some good stretching. I will monitor this closely if my weight starts to decrease.
    Do you have an off the shelf supplement that you would recommend. GNC is filled with Weight lifting supplements but not sure if that's what I should be taking. Not sure I need a 6,000 calory/serving but I'm curious to know what that was.

    thanks again.
  • @Nate: I can look around early to mid-December if you don't mind hanging out for a couple of weeks. I'm finishing up revisions to my dissertation - so that is taking all of my time right now (other than a break on Sunday to support John - hubby - at IMAZ). I'm not a fan of GNC supplements for various reasons including rates of contamination. Do you want something to supplement calories?
  • I would be looking to supplement calories...and of course, whenever you have time...no rush...Have fun in AZ..Good luck to John.
  • Shesh Matt and Nate, I'm only 1" taller than you both and think I'm skin and bones at 180lbs. Goes to show there is a lot of variance here. I raced this year at 200lbs and it was way harder on my joints so I'm headed back down again.

    I think great indicators for body weight and fitness are: energy, energy to perform workouts, strength on the bike, mood and sleep quality. If I'm irritable....I'm either overreaching or underweight/underfed.

  • Thanks for the comments Vince...a lot of variance...thanks for the indicators.
  • To build on what others have said...

    In general the lighter you are on race day the faster you can get around the course and the less energy it takes to do that, however I have personally notice to major things to watch out for:

    - When I get too light my recovery time significantly increases and my mood goes to crap quick. This typically happens in the last month before an IM and then I taper which makes things even more interesting.
    - The lighter you are for IM the less room for error you have for nuritional errors. I race at ~135, to stay within the 2% of my body weight, I can only lose 2.6 lbs in a race...thats nothing during an Ironman in hot and humid conditions. To make things worse my average sweet rate in normal summer conditions is close to 4 lbs per hour and I have seen over 5 lbs per hour consistantly in hot conditions.

    In other words for racing you do get a benefit of being lighter but there is definetly a cost (risk) associated with that. Finding the weight that balances this is a bit of trial and error and very indivdual. When to get to this weight is another thing you have to sort out as well.

    On the training front, I like to carry around a few extra lbs for the majority of the year as I know I will stay healthy and recovery well...plus I like to eat.

    Sorry, I can't help you with how to gain or keep weight on though, as I have the opposite issue. I very easily put 10 lbs on at the end of each season and slowly drop it over the next 10 -11 months to get to my A-race weight.
  • I am skinny at 5' 10" and 136 lbs.  (which is my off season weight).  When I start ramping up volume, I will drop to 132 or so and people start saying I am too skinny.   Last year I tried to see how low I could go because I love running at lighter weights.  I found that I really could not go below 129 or 130 because I was just too hungry and knew I wasn't getting the fuel I needed.  I think you can tune into your body and what it requires.... I like to experiment and learn my limits.  You just need to be conscious of what you are doing. 

  • I think both Leigh and Matt provided some good metrics, energy level, injuries, etc.  Keep in mind that with a power meter you also have a pretty good field testing metric, if you drop below a certain weight your power output will drop consistently.  Not just  "this week I'm x watts lower" but being consistently lower than you have been, despite training and recovery, when you're losing weight is probably a good metric that you've cut into your muscles that provide your power.

    There are some slightly tongue in cheek guidelines out there ("You should look like a skeleton with a condom pulled over your skull", "...when your friends stage an invervention you know you're at race weight...") that nonetheless do bear truth in them, which is that just about any weight-bearing aerobic, athletic activity longer than ~3 minutes is negatively affected by increased mass.  So if you can be 155, maintaining your power/pace outputs, not excessively fatigued, and not susceptible to injuries that's a good thing.  I believe that most Americans have become slightly skewed as to what is and isn't healthy looking.  Don't get caught up in thinking "I'll be skin and bones" as if that's a BAD thing - in endurance sports, it's actually not.  I believe if you're observant, honest with yourself, and you use the mood and functional metrics listed as guidelines you can safely lower your weight and you'll discover, as Matt as, where your personal 'line' is for race weight.

  • @Scott - well homeostasis isn't/doesn't maintain healthy weight or fat ratios, it maintains the current system as is. When you start to change your system, your body is going to push back and try to get back to the state it was at before. This is why consistency is so important, and why most dieters will GAIN weight when they stop dieting (usually because they don't stick with it long enough to change the body's "set point" for what's normal.) Basically homeostasis is hatred of change from your body's point of view, whether that change is good or bad from a long term health/performance standpoint is irrelevant to your body. It just wants things to stay the way they are.
  • 6,000 calories per serving? What is that supplement, rocket fuel?????
  • Thanks for all the replies everyone.
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