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Drop in FTP when not riding?

 I haven't ridden since the middle of Sept. Is there a percentage of decrease in FTP when being off for a certain number of days/weeks?  I ask because honestly I don't feel like doing a test right now but want to do the pre OS workouts before I get into it in Jan and I'm looking for a general number to be around so that I can get my legs back.  Daniels has percent decreases for time off in his vdot scales, wondering if bike power can relate to it.... Thanks!

Dan

Comments

  • Dan - I don't know that there is a formula to tell you where you'll be, given amount of time off. But what I'm doing, getting back on the trainer in prep for Jan OS, after my enforced time off due to bike crash mid-Sept, is just following my body's lead. I try to do the same warm-up I would do when I was fit, which is 10-15 minutes working up from 25 >>65% of FTP, followed by about 3 30-60 second efforts at 85-100%, and then either a few 1-5 minutes efforts at 90%, or 10 minutes at about 75%. The FTP I'm using is NOT the one I was at at peak fitness, but rather the one I STARTED the OS at last year. Then, I'll do a 20 minute FTP test last week of December to give me a mark for the OS. I expect that number to be BELOW last year's start of OS FTP, due to the profound loss of muscle mass and thus stamina/strength I suffered during my hospitalization.

    Bottom line, you will lose fitness, and a good rule of thumb is you'll revert to your "baseline" within 8-12 weeks. So use your LOWEST known FTP during the ramp-up Pre-OS phase.

  •  Thank you Al.  I'm glad to hear you're on the road to recovery and drilling it again.  I just have to get back on the horse again and give it a go, I wish now I hadn't taken so much time off, but I've been running instead and am happy with what I've been doing.  Hopefully I'll get far above last year's FTP!  Good luck to you on your recovery.

    Dan

  • Dan,

    To add my numbers in the mix.  I did relatively little between IMC and starting the November OS around 8-9 weeks.  I lost 36 points on my FTP down to 205 from 241.  I did do a couple rides before the tests and a couple runs but nothing in the z4-z5 area.   I started the OS last year at 180, but that was after a 3 year lay off with very little training other that getting a beer.

    As your just getting in to it I'd say just get out there a do what you feel like, just watch if you are doing 2X6 as you can still crank over the FTP easily.   If you take it out a little hard one day and are not recovered take a day off and ramp down the FTP.  If you go to easy at least you are getting something in. 

    Basically don't dig yourself in to a hole prior to the OS and it will be fine.  Your only goal now is to limit the losses and help prepare for the killer 20 weeks coming up. 

    BTW I dropped out of the November OS and will be joining you in January for some pain.

    Gordon

  •  Thanks Gordon, I'll be right there in the pain cave.  Really looking forward to it.

  • I find that as long as i am running i really do not losse much on the bike. Maybe just the top 5 percent or so in a couple of months. Regardless it wont hurt you to start a tad bit low. Go with 90 percent of where you were. It will be easy to tell where you are at after a few sessions. I would not base much off the first one, that one is gonna suck...
  • @Dan, I find it's about 10-15%. Coach Rich takes off more time than me (and comes back stronger) so he might be able to add more, but note that if you are healthy, the first 5-10% come back quickly...it's those last damn five pounds....errr, I mean watts...that take forever! image
  • @Chris and P: thank you.  Chris, I was only on for 5 minutes and thought something was wrong with my rollers!  I suck and it sucked.  Needless to say, I stopped, because really (in my own mind) I was testing the rollers after I replaced a belt!  Patrick, I'll try to find a happy medium.  Thanks gentlemen, time to get on it tonight as I may get blown off the road running today!

    Dan

  • Dan- I'm right there with you. I've been running, but not biking much at all since September, and unlike Chris I certainly dropped my FTP, I can feel it. I've been able to pretty much guestimate my FTP based on what it feels like to put out a few 5-10min intervals based on my RPE. That probably wouldn't work for a noobie, but if you've been with EN for a while you just get to a point where you can kinda tell roughly (within 5 pts or so) where you are.

    And there's a Pre-OS plan??? I better go check that out! I've been dreading hitting the Jan OS full strength without a little build up this month to get prepared!
  •  @Dan, I find what Chris gave above is consistent with my experience. As you know I have been running hard. Coach P gives a little more conservative approach, try 10%off FTP. Highly recommend the Pre OS training from Wiki. It will give you a great chance to evaluate that, 3x5min(5min), 2x8min(5min)......Nice short intervals with full recoveries. Start at 90% and see how is that 3rd 5min interval feeling, if coming still strong, try 8min next time....10 and 12min later as the 4 week mini plan calls for. There are 3x week FTP workouts, plenty of chance to evaluate. I also hate testing and testing indoors, no way anymore.

    I took my FTP down 5% from outside to the trainer so far, have not adjusted down further for loss of fitness. Will do that as soon as I hit those 10 and 12min intervals, after I have a look and see how it is going.

  • My observation, based on my experiences with my numbers, with 315w as my FTP:

    • I can totally fall of the wagon (as I have right now) and the lowest my FTP will get down is about 265-270w. IOW, there is a definite basement that my watts will go down to relatively quickly (sucks how quickly it happens) but once they are in there, they hit the foundation and don't go any lower.
    • I can get back up to 290w very quickly, which is nice. Like 3wks of consistent 3-4x hard rides per week.
    • 290-300w take another 2-3wks
    • 300-315w takes another 4-6wks, probably.

    So the big takeaway is that once you build it, you lose it quickly, but there is a basement, and you get it back quickly, but it still takes a lot of work to push it through that historcal ceiling of 315w, in my case.

  •  thanks everyone.  So really I just need feel like throwing up for a few weeks and I'll start getting close.  I can do that.  In fact, I'm inspired to start tonight as I couldn't run this morning in a monsoon.  

    Dan

  • DN, remember that there's also 8 weeks of FTP focus starting in January, so no need to rush the process and build up fatigue now. Best place to be going in to the OS is well rested.
  •  Alright, I did the pre OS first bike workout tonight to get my legs back.  I was at 254 at season's end, so I figured I'd try for 225-230 for my 5' on.  The first hurt.  Not so much pain, but it felt uncoordinated and its accentuated (sp?/ww?) on my rollers for sure!  Speaking of (sp?), why doesn't spell check work when I right click it?  Anyway, my wife was watching tv so I couldn't put the fan on either or watch my vids.  I was probably around 220, I refuse to use wko yet!  Second went smoother, at least 225 but hard.  Then I said F it and turned the fan on for my recovery and last interval.  Much better and I could hold at least 230.  I know its only 5' with 5' recovery, but gave me hope.  Thank you all.  And Patrick, my bike isn't calling me any names anymore.  Now, I have to cool down some more, go to bed, and hit the roads for a jog at 5:15 tomorrow morning!

    Dan

  • Thanks for the link Dan! I found the wiki- looks a lot like what I started doing last week so I'm right on track. :-) See ya in January!
  • @Dan and all.

      I spent 6/15 through 11/15 with zero bike time while focussing on running with Marathon Nation- great experience but shrinking quads!  Just started EN OS season 3 this week and did the bike test today.  Here's my data:

       End of Tri season 6/15 FTP 253  -> 12/2/2010 FTP 232 for a 8.3% drop in FTP with 5 1/2 monthscompletely off the bike. I suspect that's as low as I'd fall unless I also had lost aerobic conditioning by not running.

     Nice to be back home in the Haus (and in my pain cave).

    Dr D

  •  @John: Thanks.  I think that I'm finding the same thing.  I haven't done a test yet and won't until Jan OS, but I did ride 2 nights ago and I felt good with a 10% decrease but didn't try to push it.  I may have been able to squeeze some more out but just wanted to get a ride in.  I'll be back on it tonight to see how the legs feel!

  •  @Dan, fan makes a world of difference to me. Regardless of temp in my garage, I have to have the fan on or else. I put myself in such a hole without it, that it becomes recovery from heat stress. Good job, should come back fast to 250+.

  • Update: so yesterday I did my "top of Lake" loop with Sawiris. Felt like total azz, only 236w compared to my normal 275w+ on this loop.

    This morning I was 251w and felt much better. Still a long way to go to 275w but 15w difference in 24hrs. I seriously think that, for me, it's like needing a couple hard rides to clean out the engine or something.

  •  Rich, I feel for ya... was that in 90 degree weather too??? I'm stuck on the rollers pal!!! Snow coming and nothing but 20's and 30's here.  I'll be back at tonight in the basement.

  • And it's a coordination thing too....pushing solid watts consistently takes focus and you gotta relearn it a bit. I like the idea of the "watt basement" concept. image
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