Home Group Discussion-OutSeason November 2010

Week 6 Bike Thread

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Comments

  • My goal was to hit 250 on these. I came close. 2x12@ 252(1.096) and 246(1.069). Not sure 250 is doable at next test. Should be a big bump regardless. I tested at 220 in week 1. I think I'm still struggling more mentally on these. A couple things I've realized is that my legs are not trembling as much as in past years coming off the intervals. Makes me wonder if I can physically go harder. I'm also not failing the stairs test. You know, walking up the stairs later in the day and really feeling the workout in your legs.

    Nice work everyone.


  • 2x12 done. I am figuring out the world of power. I am using my tacx imagic and have figured out how to do the average power.



    11' warmup

    12' @261 Watts

    4' easy spin

    12' @ 260 W

    4' easy spin

    17@ 240 W

    Total bike =61 min.



    It felt good. After last nights great-but hard-run I was surprised my legs were with me.

     

    And Look:  I even figured out how to upload a picture of my file.  I feel so techie.

  • my z4 lives between 162-168
    my intervals usually hang around 162-166

    today....due to the urging from the otha thread....

    10' slow build, then
    1x10' first 3' were 164-169, last 7' were 170-173
    rest 4'
    1x10' first 2' were 165-172, last 8' were 172-176
    rest 4'
    1x10' first 2' were 166-175, next 6' were 175-179, then next 2' were holding 180!
    rest 2'
    then 10' holding 158 z3 'cooldown'

    ROAR....(for today, at least)

    brings me to ask, is this an attack that should be done EVERY workout? if so, why have zones? why not just say "go ALL OUT" for X minutes?

    Thx,
    Chris
  • Posted By Matt Sullivan on 09 Dec 2010 09:09 AM

    My goal was to hit 250 on these. I came close. 2x12@ 252(1.096) and 246(1.069). Not sure 250 is doable at next test. Should be a big bump regardless. I tested at 220 in week 1. I think I'm still struggling more mentally on these. A couple things I've realized is that my legs are not trembling as much as in past years coming off the intervals. Makes me wonder if I can physically go harder. I'm also not failing the stairs test. You know, walking up the stairs later in the day and really feeling the workout in your legs.

    Nice work everyone.

     

    Hey Matt, I've had the same concern.

    The first OS was by far the hardest on my body.  I knew I was working really hard as I felt it on walking up the stairs most days.  There were also times that I got off the bike and my heart felt like it was about to beat right out of my chest.

    Second OS, I didn't feel this nearly as much but I still did occasionally.  Then the Power Hack came and I felt this way again on a regular basic.

    This OS, I have yet to get off the bike truely trembling and have yet to have the amount of leg fatigue and pain that it actually hurts to go up stairs.

    Part of my thinks it is just that are bodies are much more trainned now and can handle the work without breaking down as much.   However, I also do have concerns that once again my mind is limiting my performance and I need to be re-taught what hard is just like in the first OS.

    Sorry, I can't offer much more than that right now, but definitely understand exactly what you are saying and am thinking about it daily.

  • Well Gangsters I hit it today and my training partner blew a spoke.......Best ride yet....10 min wu, 3x3, then 10 x 3.....The results............1:01...TSS 100 and IF 1.004

    First ten min split Interval

    Duration: 10:01
    Work: 114 kJ
    TSS: 20.4 (intensity factor 1.106)
    Norm Power: 189
    VI: 1

    Second:

    Duration: 10:01
    Work: 109 kJ
    TSS: 19 (intensity factor 1.068)
    Norm Power: 183
    VI: 1

    Third:

    10:01
    Work: 119 kJ
    TSS: 23.2 (intensity factor 1.178)
    Norm Power: 201
    VI: 1.01


    Entire Workout
    Duration: 1:00:27 (1:01:41)
    Work: 544 kJ
    TSS: 100 (intensity factor 1.004)
    Norm Power: 172





  • Posted By Carl Noftsger on 09 Dec 2010 10:31 AM

    Well Gangsters I hit it today and my training partner blew a spoke.......Best ride yet....10 min wu, 3x3, then 10 x 3.....The results............1:01...TSS 100 and IF 1.004



    First ten min split Interval



    Duration: 10:01

    Work: 114 kJ

    TSS: 20.4 (intensity factor 1.106)

    Norm Power: 189

    VI: 1



    Second:



    Duration: 10:01

    Work: 109 kJ

    TSS: 19 (intensity factor 1.068)

    Norm Power: 183

    VI: 1



    Third:



    10:01

    Work: 119 kJ

    TSS: 23.2 (intensity factor 1.178)

    Norm Power: 201

    VI: 1.01





    Entire Workout

    Duration: 1:00:27 (1:01:41)

    Work: 544 kJ

    TSS: 100 (intensity factor 1.004)

    Norm Power: 172













    3rd interval at an IF of 1.178? You should go check the doors on your car... I think you blew them all off!

     


  • 3rd interval at an IF of 1.178? You should go check the doors on your car... I think you blew them all off!

    he should be well rested, he hasn't worked since Nov 15th or so and doesn't work until after xmas. Station 5 guys are slackers pure and simple.
  • Posted By Matt Ancona on 09 Dec 2010 10:20 AM
    Posted By Matt Sullivan on 09 Dec 2010 09:09 AM

    My goal was to hit 250 on these. I came close. 2x12@ 252(1.096) and 246(1.069). Not sure 250 is doable at next test. Should be a big bump regardless. I tested at 220 in week 1. I think I'm still struggling more mentally on these. A couple things I've realized is that my legs are not trembling as much as in past years coming off the intervals. Makes me wonder if I can physically go harder. I'm also not failing the stairs test. You know, walking up the stairs later in the day and really feeling the workout in your legs.

    Nice work everyone.

     

    Hey Matt, I've had the same concern.

    The first OS was by far the hardest on my body.  I knew I was working really hard as I felt it on walking up the stairs most days.  There were also times that I got off the bike and my heart felt like it was about to beat right out of my chest.

    Second OS, I didn't feel this nearly as much but I still did occasionally.  Then the Power Hack came and I felt this way again on a regular basic.

    This OS, I have yet to get off the bike truely trembling and have yet to have the amount of leg fatigue and pain that it actually hurts to go up stairs.

    Part of my thinks it is just that are bodies are much more trainned now and can handle the work without breaking down as much.   However, I also do have concerns that once again my mind is limiting my performance and I need to be re-taught what hard is just like in the first OS.

    Sorry, I can't offer much more than that right now, but definitely understand exactly what you are saying and am thinking about it daily.





     

    I couldn't agree more with both of you. This is my 3rd OS, I'm pushing significantly more watts than ever before, but I am not taxed like I was the last 2 years.  Use to dry heave a lot and have to lie on the floor for 2-3 minutes before attempting to climb the cellar stairs.  My thought was that I was consciously controlling my breathing, focussing all my energy through my legs and not expending so much energy  wincing, straining, and huffing and puffing.    

    So I feel I have been getting the most out of what my legs have to give, but because I am not leaking energy in so many other ways I am not getting to that point of total body exhaustion.

    I do not know if this makes sence or not, but it is my way of rationalizing what I am feeling instead of thinking that I have turned into a pussy and can't work hard anymore. 

     

  • Only my 2nd OS with EN. Honestly, I didn't follow it a whole lot last year - just couldn't wrap my head around the trainer.

    This year, I'm much more disciplined, and don't feel nearly as 'taxed' as I was at the end of workouts from last year. My legs still get shaky and quiver a lot after the longer intervals, but I'm able to hold myself up.
  • Crud.....15 minutes into Thursday bike, emergency call into work. Thursday bike tomorrow, Sunday run on Saturday, then Saturday bike on Sunday. Blecch.
  • 2x12 went well, real well. Thanks again Matt 'n Matt & Coach P for the guidance.
    277, 280


    Interval 1:
    Duration: 12:05
    Work: 200 kJ
    TSS: 23.1 (intensity factor 1.072)
    Norm Power: 277
    VI: 1
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 5.893 mi
    Min Max Avg
    Power: 33 356 277 watts
    Cadence: 67 106 90 rpm
    Speed: 22.3 30.8 29.2 mph
    Pace 1:57 2:41 2:03 min/mi
    Hub Torque: 1 9 6 lb-in
    Crank Torque: 27 372 260 lb-in

    Interval 3:
    Duration: 12:10
    Work: 204 kJ
    TSS: 23.9 (intensity factor 1.086)
    Norm Power: 280
    VI: 1
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 5.888 mi
    Min Max Avg
    Power: 32 375 280 watts
    Cadence: 74 127 89 rpm
    Speed: 21.4 31.4 29.0 mph
    Pace 1:55 2:48 2:04 min/mi
    Hub Torque: 1 9 6 lb-in
    Crank Torque: 32 422 266 lb-in

    5 minutes of Z3 stuff then off.
  • This workout sponsored by Coach P's "...COULD bike split..." thread... probably shouldn't have read Carl's workout results before today's workout... much obliged for the inspiration:

    1X10: 266 (IF 1.173)
    1X10: 263 (IF 1.155)
    1X10: 269 (IF 1.182)
    1X12: 203 (IF 0.894)

    Total bike 1:00:05, 240W (IF 1.057)

    What's that smell? I detect the distinct odor of a whole bunch of burnt matches... need to get a fan in here and clear the air out by this week-end or there's going to be trouble.
  • Damn, look at the IF's we're slamming down today.
    But Matt S has me wondering - despite today's 3x10 at IF 1.12/1.11/1.10, I was running up the stairs two at a time not long afterward. Does that mean I'm still not pushing hard enough on the bike? I mean, I sure thought I was suffering at the time, but afterward, hardly any effect.
  • Felt some fatigue from yesterday, but rising to Patrick's challenge to really push it, I managed to put the last interval into Z5 (>158)

    10' @ Z4, AVHR 154
    10' @ Z4, AVHR 157
    10' @ Z5, AVHR 161

    After seeing all of these power results in the last few weeks, I was reconsidering my decision to not get a power meter. I purposefully didn't get one so I would not work too hard on the bike and focus instead on my less strong running. But after reading Bob's and Matt's posting, I think I'll stick to my guns!
  • Posted By Matt Ancona on 09 Dec 2010 10:20 AM
    Posted By Matt Sullivan on 09 Dec 2010 09:09 AM

    My goal was to hit 250 on these. I came close. 2x12@ 252(1.096) and 246(1.069). Not sure 250 is doable at next test. Should be a big bump regardless. I tested at 220 in week 1. I think I'm still struggling more mentally on these. A couple things I've realized is that my legs are not trembling as much as in past years coming off the intervals. Makes me wonder if I can physically go harder. I'm also not failing the stairs test. You know, walking up the stairs later in the day and really feeling the workout in your legs.

    Nice work everyone.

     

    Hey Matt, I've had the same concern.

    The first OS was by far the hardest on my body.  I knew I was working really hard as I felt it on walking up the stairs most days.  There were also times that I got off the bike and my heart felt like it was about to beat right out of my chest.

    Second OS, I didn't feel this nearly as much but I still did occasionally.  Then the Power Hack came and I felt this way again on a regular basic.

    This OS, I have yet to get off the bike truely trembling and have yet to have the amount of leg fatigue and pain that it actually hurts to go up stairs.

    Part of my thinks it is just that are bodies are much more trainned now and can handle the work without breaking down as much.   However, I also do have concerns that once again my mind is limiting my performance and I need to be re-taught what hard is just like in the first OS.

    Sorry, I can't offer much more than that right now, but definitely understand exactly what you are saying and am thinking about it daily.



    Interesting guys....  as I've felt the same way this year too.  (My 3rd OS)  Nothing even close to the first year and the bike hack last year did more hurt on my whole body and overall energy than the feeling in my legs.

     

    What I did try today was a new workout.  I got a new erg video and in the climb up some mountain in France there was plenty of 110% stuff along with FTP stuff and this was the first day this season I felt a little in the legs after the workout, but still nothing like the 1st OS.  This also makes me wonder if the legs can handle the higher watts right now, but I think mentally or cardio won't at this time.  I'll keep experimenting ever now and then though to see how the body reacts. 

  • FTP base test 237 w. Stretch Target for this 2X12 was 250w.
    20 min warm up. First 12’ 251w, IF = 1.06 and 2nd 237w, IF = 1.0. Finished the ride at 210w IF = .88.
    1 hr NP = 220, IF =.927.
    Mixed emotions with the results. This is my highest IF for a 1 hr ride of the OS even with the long warm up. SO that is progress. The second 12’ started fine then the rpm just drops out which is my normal failure mode on these intervals. The legs hurt but they don’t scream, but the just won’t hold the watts. Well this tells me to try 245 for the first interval on the next round.
  • Look at everybody crushing it today!!!  Great job all!!!

    I too used today as a 'Test 2 Prep.'  Tried hard to set a mental baseline of what I hope my new FTP will be (though 2x10 is different than 2x20, I'm confident).  Hurt like hell, but in that oh-so-good way.  Previous FTP 196w, shooting for 205-210w.

    Interval 1: 10:00 @ 212w (1.08)

    Interval 2: 10:00 @ 208w (1.06)

    Interval 3: 20:00 @ 158w (.807)

    Can't wait for the day off tomorrow, my legs are mush!

  • Posted By Bob Arsenault on 09 Dec 2010 01:03 PM
    Posted By Matt Ancona on 09 Dec 2010 10:20 AM
    Posted By Matt Sullivan on 09 Dec 2010 09:09 AM

    My goal was to hit 250 on these. I came close. 2x12@ 252(1.096) and 246(1.069). Not sure 250 is doable at next test. Should be a big bump regardless. I tested at 220 in week 1. I think I'm still struggling more mentally on these. A couple things I've realized is that my legs are not trembling as much as in past years coming off the intervals. Makes me wonder if I can physically go harder. I'm also not failing the stairs test. You know, walking up the stairs later in the day and really feeling the workout in your legs.

    Nice work everyone.

     

    Hey Matt, I've had the same concern.

    The first OS was by far the hardest on my body.  I knew I was working really hard as I felt it on walking up the stairs most days.  There were also times that I got off the bike and my heart felt like it was about to beat right out of my chest.

    Second OS, I didn't feel this nearly as much but I still did occasionally.  Then the Power Hack came and I felt this way again on a regular basic.

    This OS, I have yet to get off the bike truely trembling and have yet to have the amount of leg fatigue and pain that it actually hurts to go up stairs.

    Part of my thinks it is just that are bodies are much more trainned now and can handle the work without breaking down as much.   However, I also do have concerns that once again my mind is limiting my performance and I need to be re-taught what hard is just like in the first OS.

    Sorry, I can't offer much more than that right now, but definitely understand exactly what you are saying and am thinking about it daily.





     

    I couldn't agree more with both of you. This is my 3rd OS, I'm pushing significantly more watts than ever before, but I am not taxed like I was the last 2 years.  Use to dry heave a lot and have to lie on the floor for 2-3 minutes before attempting to climb the cellar stairs.  My thought was that I was consciously controlling my breathing, focussing all my energy through my legs and not expending so much energy  wincing, straining, and huffing and puffing.    

    So I feel I have been getting the most out of what my legs have to give, but because I am not leaking energy in so many other ways I am not getting to that point of total body exhaustion.

    I do not know if this makes sence or not, but it is my way of rationalizing what I am feeling instead of thinking that I have turned into a pussy and can't work hard anymore. 

     

    3rd O/S for me and echo what you three have said.  First O/S and last year I had to keep one of those Home Depot 5-10 gallon pails next to the bike for fear that the dry heaves would not be so dry.  This years I'm pushing more watts than ever despite not crushing myself like years past.  Difference seems to be that I'm religious about taking the planned rest days and I've focussed on working hard and staying at the top end (or many times slightly exceeding top end as I think my FT was low in my first test) each workout but not crushing myself this year.  Unlike years past where I pushed so hard on the bike that I eventually would crack in a subsequent workout this year I've managed to nail every workout.  I'd like to think the consistently working hard to the plan is yielding me better results than my past inconsistency from crushing workouts and then cracking and not getting through others.  

    That said, at the encouragement of the other thread, feeling like 2x12 can't be that tough after Tuesday's 2x20, and knowing I have tomorrow off to recover I hit this morning with 2x12' @ 286 (107%) and followed it up with some 88% work for 1h @ IF 0.94.  This brought back the leg trembling, need to stay in the basement for awhile as I can't climb stairs feeling.  

    Judging by all the great work folks are getting in there are going to be some awesome test results in a few weeks time. 

  •  Work out went pretty well tonight. Opened up the WO with 26' @ .98, followed by 4' EZ, followed by 2 X 12' (3') @ 100% and 101%. 

    Lost a few watts on the first interval as my cyclocross DVD is 30' so the credits starting rolling at 31' into my wo. No way I was going 10 more mins watching credits roll. So put in another DVD as fast as I could. I don't even pay attention to the video but something has to be on...

     

     

    Entire workout (224 watts):

    Duration:   1:03:09

    Work:       860 kJ

    TSS:       97 (intensity factor 0.96)

    Norm Power: 240

    VI:         1.06

    Pw:HR:       n/a

    Pa:HR:       n/a

    Distance:   20.752 mi

     

     

  • Late comer to the party but I'm happy to say I had a great ride too. Looking at all the posts, seems everyone really blew the doors off today - Thanks Coach P for the license to crush!

    Tested into the OS at 183 FTP but realized after a few rides it was just plain off. So I did a SWAG and came up with 200 which is what I have been pushing watts above there since. Well, at Coach P's urging I set my sights for 215 and I was not dissapointed.

    10' @ 218; IF 1.089; VI 1.0; HR 156; Cd 84
    10' @ 217; IF 1.084; VI 1.0; HR 166; Cd 84
    10' @ 220; IF 1.098; VI 1.0; HR 168; Cd 84

    20' @ 184; IF 0.922; VI 1.0; HR 155; Cd 86

    Total 1:14:56 @ 192; IF 0.958; VI 1.08; HR 150; Cd 80

    Pretty sweet session. Loved the consistance between intervals.
  • I missed P's post yesterday, so didn't push it. I'm worried about accumulating fatigue, and wasn't really reeling it today. Did 2x12'@101%/102% + 15'@89%. I'll take it. Nice job everyone!
  • So in my Intermediate OS world today was Saturday....and that was tough (again)....here are the numbers;



    12' @ 163W, IF: 1.031

    12' @ 168W, IF: 1.048



    15' @ 134W, IF: 0.845

    15' @ 134W, IF: 0.85



    Total bike: 1:18:45 @ 139W, IF: 0.882



    Hopefully get out for a 1 mile run later today (under Physio instruction) ;-)

  • I love Fridays.  Recovery.

    It sounds like I am in the minority, in that I do most of my weekday workouts in the evenings after work .  That means I get to read all day about everybody banging out the workouts and posting great resiults.  It is highly motivating for me, and it is working.  I am even seeing it in how my legs look!

    I rode the 3x10 Z4 and balance at Z3, then I topped that off with the 20 min run and strides that I missed on Tuesday.  Pretty tough, but the work is working. 

    About an hour and a half  later, after dinner and some Go Fish with the kids, I gave my son a piggy back ride up the stairs.  That's when I really felt the legs, and he is barely 50 lbs.  We get to the top of the stairs and he asks, can you go downstairs and bring up my book ... 

  • This week was rough. I got a call Sunday night that my dad was heading to ER with breathing problems. I didn't sleep much and then left house at 445 to stop by hospital to fix a problem before I went north. Needless to say it was a long couple days. He's out of the hospital now, but not out of the woods (congestive heart failure).
    I did get my workouts in except I forgot the 20 min run. I'm doing that today b/c I haven't missed a workout yet this OS.

    Tues Bike: 50:36, 0.966
    2x15': 1.060/84 rpm, 1.042/84 rpm

    Thurs Bike: 48:00, 0.998
    3x10': 1.115/85, 1.082/84, 1.102/85
  • Great "could" Thursday ride today!

    10' @ 170W, IF: 1.036
    10' @ 181W, IF: 1.046
    10' @ 189W, IF: 1.093

    Legs feel fine!!!!

    Very inspired by the coaches and NOV OS buddies!
  • First Ride with a power meter! So I saved the 2x20's for today so that I could do a baseline FTP test. I rested yesterday (one day ahead of schedule this week.) So the results were

    1st 20': NP=170, VI=1, cadence=92
    2nd 20' NP=168, VI=1, cadence=93

    For the 42' that gave a normalized power of 168, so that's my starting FTP. That a W/kg of 3. I have to admit, I'm pissed. I want a higher FTP! Gotta get to work I guess. I wonder how much I could improve it by week 8...

    Bev


  • Beverly,  Nice first test, great to have that one in the books.  You are going to absolutely love your PM. 

    The formula is easy:   Follow the workout plan, bust your azz during the intervals, and you will have no choice but to push higher watts.

    You will find as you watch the watts go up and down what it takes to push higher watts so the PM will actually help you refine your form and teach you how to ride better and that alone will allow to see higher numbers.

    One warning, that PM is the biggest whip you could buy, if you thought you worked hard before, just wait to see what is in store, the outcome is so definately worth it though !!      Good luck and have fun.

  • Sorry I have been quiet. I was traveling in early December. While I was traveling, I caught some bug. Now I have the linger cough and moderate congestion. So after a perfect November I have about 60 minutes of training in this month.

    Ok--in the catagory of too much information....I got back on the bike on Weds and was going through my warm-up. On the 2 of the 3' warmup I got dry heaves! I restarted the workout again and had the same thing. So I quit

    Trust me--I'm ok with pushing to dry heaves.... Just not when it is sickness related.

    I'm going to try again today.
  • Matt K:

    I hope that your Dad is doing better. With everthing going on in your life, don't feel like you need to get the 20 minute brike in. With that said, many times getting out there is the best thing you can do for you.

    Hang in there.

    Geoff
  • @Bob - thanks. I definitely noticed that positioning changes affected the watts. I noticed that if I did the "push over the top" pedaling, I gained about 10 watts. It was weird, sometimes I could push more in the aerobars, other times more sitting up. I guess that the fatigue of different muscles played into that. I am absolutely 100% psyched to have a power meter!
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