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VDOT testing

Jeff BraatenJeff Braaten
in General Training Discussions

 Just a quick question to the team, I did my 5K VDOT a week or two ago like everyone else in the October group and did a half marathon yesterday in Dallas. My VDOT was higher for the half than the 5K so should I use that as my new "test score" or stay with the 5K results?

Comments

  • HayesSanbornHayesSanborn

    You've earned the hight vdot, go with that!

  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak

    Jeff,

    I'm with Hayes you earned the new vdot, now you get to enjoy the pain. 

    Gordon

  • dan_forbesdan_forbes

     If your vdot is higher for a longer race that is more like what you are going to run in your races, by all means take it.  Good news for you, you are more fit for longer events.  I pray for 5K TT's and hope I survive for all the rest in a race!  Work works, you'll feel it soon in your workouts now!  Great job.

  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    Your result is pretty unusual. "Most" people will run a half-mary about one VDOT point slower than their 5K VDOT and a marathon somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 points slower than their 5K VDOT. (e.g., with a 46 VDOT measured on 5Ks, you'd expect to run a half marathon that corresponded to teh "HMP" for a 45 VDOT approximately.)

    Were you a bit more rested for the real race? Or maybe it's a motivation thing for you?

    (I do not know enough about the how the VDOT tables were constructed to know why this "fatigue factor" isn't built into them for that range of distances. But I do know that most people are taking a very serious risk if they try to race an open marathon at their "MP" (based on a 5K VDOT) with no adjustment. )

    But as with all intensity/speed questions, I think it boils down to whether you can do the faster VDOT intervals without hurting yourself for the subsequent workouts.
  • Jeff BraatenJeff Braaten

     @William, there really wasn't much difference between the two events except the distance. Both were races, the 5K was the turkey trot,

    and both were cold. During the 5K the finish was however up a slight incline into the wind but otherwise both pretty flat courses.  Maybe I should do a marathon for my next test.

  • Al TruscottAl Truscott
    I agree it's highly unusual to have a higher half mar VDOT. I think it indicates the need for more work on top end speed, so using the higher VDOT will be a plus. BTW, super runner Matt Ancona has the same profile.
  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    And, to add to Al's diagnosis... Matt will tell you that he improved his running across the board by improving his top end speed (shorter distance) with hard core running dudes
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Yes, congrats on the new vDOT!
  • Christian RabbatChristian Rabbat
    Jeff,
    I did the same thing one month ago. Ran a half @ Vdot 50, 1 higher than the prior month's test. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Vdot was Vdot which using time and distance to derivie it. I am using the higher one (albeit same) and loving it. Go high.

    I wonder if the results from different distances relate to one's comfort level for pacing, in addition to top end speed.
  • Scott AlexanderScott Alexander
    @Jeff, you were at White Rock and you didn't say HI?!? Both of the Boyles were here too; we got to hang out!
  • Jeff BraatenJeff Braaten
    @Scott, wow, sorry I missed you guys. We were probably standing right next to each other at the start line in coral A. I am doing the Cowtown so maybe then we can say hi!
  • jetskrjetskr
    Posted By Christian Rabbat on 07 Dec 2010 07:24 AM 

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Vdot was Vdot which using time and distance to derivie it.

    First off, congrats on earning the right for harder work.  My understanding is that the Vdot is a pace we're capable of but there are other factors (heat, fatigue, mental toughness, etc) that come into play.  The advantage of basing your pacing off of a longer run is that it will give you a better idea of how you should hold up during the 1/2 and full iron distance races.

    Several of the WSM's will recommend that if you have tested at a longer distance that you knock your Vdot down one or two point to determine your pacing for your A race.  This way you can help ensure making it the full 18mi on pace and ready to give it something for the final push.

  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    Posted By William Jenks on 06 Dec 2010 04:42 PM

    Your result is pretty unusual. "Most" people will run a half-mary about one VDOT point slower than their 5K VDOT and a marathon somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 points slower than their 5K VDOT. (e.g., with a 46 VDOT measured on 5Ks, you'd expect to run a half marathon that corresponded to teh "HMP" for a 45 VDOT approximately.)

    But as with all intensity/speed questions, I think it boils down to whether you can do the faster VDOT intervals without hurting yourself for the subsequent workouts.



    This is helpful for me, I have wondered about this recently for two reasons.

    First, my VDOT in races is consistently higher in longer distance races. In the last 3 months my VDOTs in 5km and 8km races are 48.2 and 47.9 respectively. In 15k and half-marathon races they were 49.2 and 48.8. So all in the same ballpark, but there is something about longer races where I just seem to do better. I like Al's comment that "I think it indicates the need for more work on top end speed". For me, that is probably true.

    Second, I have not done any time trials since my OS will begin in January, but I can imagine that my "racing VDOT" will be higher than my "time trial VDOT". There is something about races that causes me to go faster.

    I like the suggestion to use the highest VDOT unless you think you will hurt yourself. It would seem to make a lot of sense that if you have proven you "can" run at that higher VDOT (even if a different distance or while racing), then you should train with that as the underlying basis.

     

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