another trial noob's interminable questions
I've met the coaches, read the lit, executed the EN way, and now browsed the Nation. All is indubitably smart/cool/successful for many people, but I still have doubts for me. I think I'm kind of a fringe case. Looking for some startup handholding!
What do you think about this:
* I'm pretty happy with my 6 years of IM so far. But mine has been an unusual ignorant solo road and in the last few years I've hit diminishing returns, I wonder if I'm missing something. So I'm here hoping to break on through to the other side. EN can bring the dog food, but will I eat it, and will it matter?
* I'm eager to meet more endurance geeks, ideally new training partners. Again, EN'll probably bring that on, at least virtually.
* Do ENers ever share housing for race week? I know how costly travel and lodging can be. For most of my IMs I've had it easy, living on the isthmus in Madison. I for one think it'd be a total party to have some out-of-town teammates crash at my place. Do ENers in other race towns think similarly?
* So far, I 've had insurmountable trouble following a plan, especially a complex and inscrutable tri plan. It drives me to distraction. Did I mention ADD? ;-) On the one hand, that's why I'm here, to get help with that - but I also question whether I've got what it takes. Even if I join, I might just blow it off anyway, at least without teammates on hand to make me show up and walk me through it until it internalizes.
* What do I do if my OS is already pretty active and I like it? We have bike commuting, and we have Trekking, Spinning, Bootcamp, TRX, Yoga classes, 6 days a week. I like the classes cuz the interval training is big bang per unit time, I work harder in a group, it suits my ADDled brain, and it is social in a small way. Does an OS plan bolt onto or supplant that?
* Then April-November is race season. I still do classes, but fewer. I think I race alot - about 20 MTB, cycling, running, and tri events spread smoothly across those 8 months. Is this unusual? It's all for the fun of it, balls-out but not competitive. And there'll be a summer vacation of backpacking or bikepacking in there too. I guess I race to live - it is about the funnest thing I know. Can a proper IM plan work with that schedule?
* Whew! Thanks for reading, hope I didn't put you to sleep.
So - will I sink, or swim?
thanks alot, Mark
Comments
1. I think if you've hit diminishing returns on other plans you're likely to see a breakthrough with EN plans. Reading the rest of your post, I think if you followed the EN OS and in-season plans you'd definitely see returns as it sounds like you probably aren't as focused on tri-stuff.
2. EN is great virtually for talking about your day-to-day workouts since everyone here generally wants to share and hear about how everyone else got through the workouts. In-person, EN has a tremendous race presence at IMs and lots of other races. You can usually post and find out who's doing the race and meet up, etc. For big races, especially like IMWI, you'll find a lot of people heading up to Madison for formal and informal rallies. Lots to participate in. Plus there's a big Midwest contingent, so you'll be in good company.
3. You can read into the EN plans as much as you want. You can log-in, check out the workout for the day and do it, or you can analyze away on how it's set up, etc. It's all up to you, but if you just want to be told what do to, that's possible too. I'm not really sure what you are looking for regarding teammates walking you through it. There will be plenty of ENers doing the same plan, but ultimately everyone is responsible for themselves getting it done. You're the only one with control over that.
4. RE: the OS. It's pretty intense, pretty structured. While, of course, you can fit in other activities, you definitely want to get the most out of it since it will really affect your performance in-season. It's not a "bolt-on" to other activities. Re: working harder in a group, sometimes the perk of the OS is that it forces you to learn how to push yourself harder by yourself, which is pretty much exactly what happens in a long-course race.
5. 20 various races seems like a ton, and I'd question whether you could properly train for an IM with that schedule. Although EN plans are not the lengthy kind of weekend rides of other plans, they are still intense, and skipping too many to do a race that weekend seems pretty counterproductive. Plus balls-out usually equals recovery, which on top of an IM seems less than ideal. You can read the post about stacking plans across a season, but usually its 20 weeks of OS, 1-2 weeks transition, then 12 weeks of IM prep.
Overall, I think you need to decide what it is you are looking for. It sounds like you have a lot of interests, which I totally understand, I have about 45 hobbies. But, triathlon is my #1, and when it's a choice between an OS or an in-season workout versus something else/another hobby/etc., 90% of the time I choose triathlon, since that's my focus/goal/very serious hobby. We all need to do other things to stay sane, but if your goal in triathlon is to improve/podium/Kona/whatever you usually have to focus on it, and unfortunately sometimes that means other interests get pushed back. In the end, you're a self-coached triathlete, EN is here to give you a fantastic plan that works and a supportive environment, but it's all about what you make of it and what you do. Hope that helps!
Welcome, Mark! I'll take a crack at this and then turn it over to some other smarties.
First, some tough love, EN-style:
You're not, actually. What you wrote could probably apply to 90% of us. The first thing you'll learn here is that you are not any more or less special than the rest of us. EN is not full of zombie-like triathletes, blindly following RnP. We've all got our own schedules, likes, dislikes, challenges, kids, pets, work, whatever, and we all have to shoehorn this training into our lives in a way that makes sense for us. The Micro and Macro threads are invaluable for asking the coaches questions about how to do this.
Oh, you'll meet a lot of endurance enthusiasts ("geeks" is such a mean word, yeah?) but the training partner thing is more virtual. The plans are written so that you're working a specific pace/zone/wattage over a variety of intervals. This usually means that the Saturday group hammerfest is out as an option. Some ENers do meet up to ride or run together, but we're largely solo trainers - unless you count the virtual aspect, in which case you are now training with a couple hundred really cool athletes.
Yes! We like socializing and saving money. Troll through the threads for examples of how we coordinate racing.
If you're okay with throwing away a couple hundred bucks on the training plan version of a treadmill that functions as a clothes hanger, that's your prerogative. But if you're complaining about having hit a plateau with your IM racing and you truly want to get better, you've come to the right place. The plans work, period. And the virtual support in these forums is unparalleled, IMO. We may not be physically training together, but we are so very accountable to each other in all the ways that matter. If you're looking for some group work, jump in and start participating.
The thing that's great about the OS is that the time investment is small. The physical investment, however, is pretty huge. You'll get the most bang for your buck if you prioritize the OS training above all your other stuff, and fit in the rest where you can and IF you can. You'll find out pretty quick that it'll suck the life right out of your legs. The last thing you want to do is to kill yourself in the OS and then spend 2011 managing overuse injuries. If you like interval training, you'll probably love the OS, so give it a chance.
Mark,
Thanks for opening up. Let me offer some observations... EN is about doing long course triathlon fast. That being said, EN is also a great home for folks like me who have (temporarily) strayed from the triathlon focus.
The general thought is that all those other classes are great...but they WILL degrade your IM performance. But many people do have supplementary activities that they engage in through the OS and race season. That being said, I don't think you will find too many people in the house who try to take their OS training seriously, along with attending 3+ other classes a week.
So I think it really comes down to your interests. If IM is one of five intense activities you'll be participating in over the year, and you're not even sure if you'll work the plan...then unless you're independently wealthy and have 40 hours a week of disposable exercise time, then it might not be the best fit. On the other hand, if you're dissatisfied with your past tri performances and really want to step up your game, then you are in the right place. Just don't sign up, do lots of other stuff, make a half-assed attempt at the EN prescribed work, and then complain that you aren't seeing the promised results.
As for race meet ups, there have been all different flavors. Most of the people participating in any one race will be in a forum group for months leading up to the race, and so get to know each ore pretty well.
That's my 2cents, I'll be interested in seeing how your decision process proceeds.
Mike
Totally agree with what others have said. To me, your biggest risk of failure is the above. If you join the team but don't follow it and continue along the above path, you are going to be wasting your time and money. You either drink the Kool-Aid we're serving or you don't. Totally cool either way, but you'll only be dissatisfied if you join the party without drinking the Kool-Aid.
That's not to say that many of us don't supplement here and there with other fun stuff locally. An easy Yoga class on your rest day- totally OK. But a Hot Yoga intense class? Not a great idea. Join a local group for a group ride on the weekend? Sure, so long as you get your 2x15'FTP interval into that ride somehow. There's a local group of roadies here that I will ride with during the winter. It's their "off" season so for them, they are riding "easy", but it takes me all I've got to hang on until the next blessed traffic light. So it works. But if you are sitting in and peddling along at an easy pace for 3 hours on that ride, you aren't getting the work you need to in the OS.
Thanks, all. I am humbled that y'all have taken so much time for thoughtful replies.
I think I am getting the consensus vibe - if you want faster IM time, EN is The Way, if you actually stick to it and don't muck it up with alot of other activities. I'll think about whether that choice is one I want to make, whether a faster IM is enough of a priority to deprioritize other things I love. It might not be.
Is it really a choice that has to be made? Let me throw out a scenario, your replies will help me calibrate just how much a change we are talking about.
Looking at the trial OS plan, I see stuff like this:
First, it is Gobbledegook. With the Quick Start Guide I'd start to understand. But my gut reaction is to run away! Not from the work, but the minutia, and the tedium of doing the work alone.
Here is my temptation - to approximate one as 'run hard intervals for 50 minutes' and the other as 'bike hard/mod-hard intervals for 60 minutes' and satisfy them with a Wed Spinning class and a Thursday Trekking class. To my uncalibrated mind, it seems like a good approximation, and it is a way to still see some human beings during those workouts. I'd probably do that sort of thing alot.
What do you think - is that sort of tweaking a reasonable substitution, the sort of thing that people do to fit a plan to their own unique life, is it still drinking the koolaid? Or is it me stubbornly not drinking the koolaid? ;-)
Again, thanks 10^6, Mark
While this kind of substitution would likely be fine every once in a while, ultimately most of the time people do the workouts as written, by themselves, in their pain cave, etc. From what it sounds like you're #1 priority is a more social activity, where EN's plans are based on a #1 priority of work. If we can get the work done while participating in something else, cool, but not usually at the sacrifice of doing the work. It's pretty unusual to find some kind of class or workout that approximates the difficulty and style of the EN workouts.
Hi Mark,
Welcome to your trial and thanks for asking these questions. Looks like the members have stepped in to give you there viewpoints on the value of EN for you and you can use their input to help you make your decision.
Mark, yeah, you're kind of just stubbornly not drinking the koolaid. There are people out there that could do that sort of approximation, but that's because they've earned the right to do it. And to be clear, you don't have to earn the right from EN - you have to earn it from yourself. When the gobblygoop says 95-100%, it means exactly that - and I can tell you, pretty much everyone's approximation of 10 minutes at 100% is WAY less work than after you've done some monitored/metered work, and a couple of tests to find out "what REALLY is 100% for me?".
If you look through the OS posts, you will see many, many, many posts of people saying "WOW, now I know what work is!" Once you know what 100% feels like, it's still very easy to drift off it after 5-10 minutes. That's why there is so much emphasis on power meters and HR. The numbers do not lie - but your body and mind do. So going to a spin class and doing some hard work is probably you telling yourself a lie. I know, because my head tells me that kind of lie all the time
But were you to really drink the koolaide, learn the terms, play the numbers, I would guess that you, like everyone else, would be humbled by the initial results, and very excited about the end outcome. From there, you would be much more successful with going off road and integrating EN workouts out in the real world.
Let me hit you from another angle... while training alone is not optimal, you are also gaining some important skills in doing it. Racing an IM, or for me running an ultra marathon, is generally a solitary endeavor that requires a tremendous amount of mental focus to do correctly. I think there is a LOT of benefit to exercising your mind-muscle for the rigors of endurance athletics. Yes, having a partner to workout with is a great thing in a number of ways - but I would caution you to not have it be 100% of your work. At mile 97 on the bike, your friend won't be there to chat. It'll be you, the sun, your front tire, and a big stretch of empty road. I'm a big proponent of "practice like you race" - and that generally means training alone. Hmmm, or it might just be that I'm a jerkwad, and nobody wants to train with me
?!?
Mike
I'm a professor by day, so I see a lot of people who have to make a decision about whether to internalize what they're up to or not. To summarize a lot of learning theory, no one can take a funnel and pour knowledge into your head. All they can do is lay it out neatly in front of you in some way and then YOU have to pick it up, dig it, question it, resolve it, and file it away as part of your new self. In other words, almost all real learning is an active process where you have to buy in if you're going to do it well.
There is no doubt in anyone's mind that a person can play around at triathlon and do just fine...especially at the shorter distances. As long as you can swim, bike, and run a bit, you'll get across the line. If you're a bit more ambitious, talented, or stubborn, the same is true even for IM.
But in my experience, EN is one big active learning exercise. If you look at the plans and see stuff that turns you off, rather than stuff that piques your curiosity; if you think you need someone else to ensure that you'll stick with it; if you want to go way out on a limb (as far as bending plans) without participating actively in understanding what you're doing and how it relates to what the intentions of the plan are, then maybe you will, in all honesty, not get the same value back as the rest of us. Those who need advice can get it; those who can provide advice do. Those who can find like-minded partners can train with them; others train alone. Last year, I did several rides where I did the "work" part first and then met up with friends who just wanted to go out and ride for 90 minutes...that was my "fill out the rest of your ride with 85%" time. But if you want to follow this particular program, there's no doubt - a bit of discipline is required.
So do realize that you're being invited to make a commitment here. I'm sure there are people who (like any gym membership) just pays there money every month and don't do anything...but that's not smart. If you want to join a triathlon learning and training community, this is a great one. If not, no harm done!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a hell of a time doing all kinds of activities, and including triathlon among them. Be well and enjoy and revel in the fun of it all!
William