@Jenn - you make me feel unworthy to be a power noob! awesome work!
So now I guess I need to add the FTP and zone stuff into my joule - oh, and I figured out how to upload my garmin run workouts from my 310xt to training peaks, so that's cool... it's a process; I'm getting there.
Becky, quick question . . . are you able to upload directly from your 310xt into Training Peaks without first downloading into GarminConnect? If so, how?
....Keith has a way to climb. He's just started trying to climb the mountain again. He came in today at 202, down from 242. But considering he's not paralyzed, or brain dead, and is ALIVE, he's good with it.
Linda, so glad to hear that. Funny, my wife says the same thing sometimes, without the same numbers; mine are 196/229 start/end of OS last year; start this year is 175. I'm still trying to come up with a term for what I'm going through: healing, repair, rehabilitation, recovery, rejuvenation, rebuilding, resurrection, reincarnation.
....Keith has a way to climb. He's just started trying to climb the mountain again. He came in today at 202, down from 242. But considering he's not paralyzed, or brain dead, and is ALIVE, he's good with it.
Linda, so glad to hear that. Funny, my wife says the same thing sometimes, without the same numbers; mine are 196/229 start/end of OS last year; start this year is 175. I'm still trying to come up with a term for what I'm going through: healing, repair, rehabilitation, recovery, rejuvenation, rebuilding, resurrection, reincarnation.
Truly, Al, it warms my heart to read how you are coming back too. I could not be happier for you, and I can read between the lines how difficult it is. Make no mistake--how you and Keith are putting things back together, that's when I use the word heroic. Everyday, true heroes. Good and honorable men doing real, difficult work do the best you can, to be the best you can be. That comes from the soul.
As we both know, language can't even begin to describe what you both endured--and what your wife and I handled. I like the words you chose, and they work for me. I know I'll never be the same. But I'm trying the use the experience to futher temper what is good and strong in me, rather than allowing the trauma to leave a piece of me shriveled and scared. I could go on all day. This is one heck of a journey, that's all I know.
late in getting the test done and now will be later.... blew up after 10 minutes at 220..... any ideas on what i should target for my next attempt? and how long should i wait?
btw from doing a few 3x8s in pre OS training, i think that i problaby should have been around 205-210, of course it felt too easy when i first got going and amped it up....
Getting a hard 10 minutes in may be a good way to be ready for the test today. There's evidence out there that a good hard SHORT effort the day before a longer effort is a good thing. It's not enough to really deplete you. I say get back on that horsey and tape over the watts readout and go as hard as you can, pacing yourself, knowing its a long haul. You know how you feel when you're sitting just below blow up. That's where you want to be and that will create your number to work from. Look inside, not outside at the usuckometer to find out how hard you can go.
After a while you'll know by looking at your cadence and particular gear you're in as what you're pushing watts wise.
Bike test on Monday. Ouch!!! FTP 204 down from 219 a few months ago. Telling myself its the difference between the trainer and outside. Makes me feel better anyway.
WARNING: Don't attempt an FTP test less than 8 hours after a 5K test. I learned this the hard way this morning. I have been struggling with the mojo lately. So much so that I bailed on the FTP test on Monday. I was finally feeling good to go last night, didn't have access to my bike do thought I would crank out the 5K test. As I reported in the run thread this went super well .
I woke up feeling that same high as last night to decided to give the FTP test a try. STUPID. I was doing fine for the first 20' holiding between 210-215. A few times I had to get up out of the saddle to get the rpms back up, but overall was happy. Then came the second 20'. I totally blew up within the first 5 minutes. I struggled through as best I could and ended up with an NP of 199. This is down from a high of 225.
I am not excited about this, but given the timing and the fact that this is one of the few times I have ridden since Oct I will take it. Like every one says at least I know where I stand, and can only go up.
Streching and resting hard so that I can attempt tomorrow's bike workout.
Getting a hard 10 minutes in may be a good way to be ready for the test today. There's evidence out there that a good hard SHORT effort the day before a longer effort is a good thing.
I completely, totally and 100% agree with that. I've seen it work in my own training for decades. A complete day off--for me--before a race or TT will lead to poorer results than doing the following the day before--a warm-up, ~10 serious minutes, then a cool down. I have no scientific basis, no research to site--complete anecdotal evidence. I think it's that little drop in vital capacity that comes after a day off, but that is totally a guess. The trick is to keep your eye on the prize, and not turn that day-before effort into an hour workout.
Getting a hard 10 minutes in may be a good way to be ready for the test today. There's evidence out there that a good hard SHORT effort the day before a longer effort is a good thing. It's not enough to really deplete you. I say get back on that horsey and tape over the watts readout and go as hard as you can, pacing yourself, knowing its a long haul. You know how you feel when you're sitting just below blow up. That's where you want to be and that will create your number to work from. Look inside, not outside at the usuckometer to find out how hard you can go.
After a while you'll know by looking at your cadence and particular gear you're in as what you're pushing watts wise.
Good luck.
cm
i get this part, but if i tape over the watts and go by feel, won't it feel easy in the beginning, causing me to ride at higher watts that just get lower as i can't hold them? i could have lowered my watts substantially and kept going today, i have thought the idea is to try and hold a wattage level for the entire session...
If you think you should have held 205-210, start your first 20' @ 205. Then keep it there until the 15' mark. If you feel strong, bump it up to 210' for the final 5'. For the second 20' start @ 205 again, if you can hold it for 10' and still feel strong, bump it up a little bit each minute.
The goal is to be as steady as possible, but if you can build throughout and leave nothing in the tank at the end, you have perfectly executed your test.
BTW, were you doing 205-210 for each of your 8' Pre OS workouts? If so, were you feeling strong afterward like you could bang out another, or were you pooped. If pooped, take my guidance above and subtract 5 watts.
I'm a day behind - did my first FTP test yesterday - I had forgotten how hard these things are. My course is uphill (roughly 1500 ft over my 42 minutes)- so I subtract 5 watts for my FTP. I was really slow, but I guess that's because of the extra 12 lbs since my last test in July. My watts were also down 11 - that's probably normal for January - right?
Run test tomorrow - looking forward to that even less. But considering how my season went last year, I guess I'll be trying harder on the run this year.
@ Scott, You're right, the idea is to hold a certain wattage and Dave's advice is sound. My thought has more to do with our preconcieved notions about what you SHOULD be holding and that blows people up, especially early season. You'll push the watts easier earlier (like lifting weights) but you know you've got to be there for 40 minutes so you have that in mind, tempering it early on and pyramiding up. My overall theory is that you can do the best you can over the 42, not looking at watts and do it again looking at watts and you'll probably come in around the same numbers for ftp. The pm definitely helps with pacing but you have to have a good idea going in as to what you can hold/ lift. I think warm up is everything. If you are ready to rock, then you get up to your comfy/hard place quickly and keep adding to it as time goes by, maybe 5 minute increments that Dave suggests. It's proper pacing, so you end strong, and on fumes.
The net is that you're finding out and that's the point- to have a good working number.
After a couple of attempts which ended with a whimper and cries for my mommy, I finally kicked my own a$$ and did the bike test this morning. Oof! FTP = 160. 5 watts short of my start last year---no surprise, really.
I didn't cry for my mommy---who, in reality, would tell me to nut up and get it done. The real limiter I think was mental---there aren't any 42 minute climbs on the mountain bike around here (an excuse to move to CO!). About 12 minutes into it, I was waiting for a nice downhill section. Ha!
Jenn: Holy mental 6-pack! That's alot of testing! Good on ya for figuring out that half the battle with these tests is pacing correctly!
LP: I'm impressed with Keith's test. Truly. The amount of anabolic stress and metabolic rebuilding that occurs after a trauma (the accident and subsequent operations) is tremendous. As Leigh wisely put it to me the other day, you're redlining in another way. If it could all be measured in TSS, the IF would be through the roof and the time involved is months. Al, I'm including you in this group too. I wish you and Keith a strong and steady rebuild and comeback!
Finally nutted up myself and got 'r done. Riding rollers for now so I wimped out a little (can you nut up and wimp out in the same paragraph?) and did a 20' TT as I'm still easing back into the rollers and can see myself blowing up spectacularly at minute 18 of the second interval and flying across the room. I raced last year with a L'il Peep (I'm 122# as I write) FTP around 170 and expected to see a slight drop but didn't really have any indoor work to compare to. Eased into the interval and tried to keep raising the power level and pull the average up. Always a mental boost for me to watch the average power climb throughout the effort. Seems mentally easier to be pulling it up instead of trying to keep it from dropping. Ended up with an Np of 183 which x .95 gives me an FTP of 173. So, good news in relation to last year. Better news is that my 5' Np's were 176, 181, 185, 190 so I think I could probably push it harder.
I'm debating adding a resistance unit to the rollers (Kreitler 4.5" drums) as I'm getting a little close to spinning these out (running 28 mph at 200 watts and 28 mph is LOUD) or getting a trainer. Any recommendations? I've primarily been looking at the CycleOps Fluid 2, Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, or 1up USA. While I'd love the Computrainer, these fit my budget a little bit better...
@Kitima--thank you for that. I just read it aloud to Keith, which helps him to hear that. He's got another journey ahead of him, but he's up to the challenge.
Nice work everybody! Super motivating reading all this stuff.
Day 1 today (on the trainer), 40' bike: 18.8km, avg 28.2km/hr, cadence 83. Avg HR very low though, 137. I shouldve went harder but the junk just keeps going numb! Saturday I rode a good hard 40min set and my heart was 140s on avg. Need to get my position dialed in. And suck it up!
I completed an FTP test yesterday....my local tri performance center does a variation of the suggested tests from EN. Since I don't have a power meter, I made an executive decision to execute their test because its repeatable with little variation. They do a flat 10-miler on the CompuTrainer; the warm-up is: 5 mins easy, 10 mins at 60%, 1 min on/1min rest at 80%, 90%, 100%, 110%, 100%. Then 5 minutes easy all before the test starts.
My test sucked, but was exactly what I suspected. I had major surgery Nov 17 and am technically still recovering (hematacrit and ferritin levels still a little low--but overall doing great and have clearance from doc).
Here's the deets (BTW, this is embarrassing given what I've been reading about here!!): Duration: 33:07 Distance: 10.00 miles Avg Speed: 18.11 mph Avg Power: 134.5 Avg w/kg: 2.20 FTP: 124 NP: 135.54 IF: 1.09 VI: 1.01 TSS: 65.96 Avg HR: 181
I should also say I have no idea what all this means, expect that I am weak on the bike. But, a least I have a baseline and can (hopefully) only go up from here!!
Fantastic work, Dana. That's not an easy test. There shall be no embarassment in the JOS. We are the Regular Joes! Be very patient with yourself and just build build build. It's a long haul and surgery takes a toll. You shall be amazed if you just work the plan and forget the comparisons. Good luck!
First FTP test of the season last night, and the results were in line with the estimates that I was "feeling out" last week. I optomistically assumed that between my last test (April/May of last year) and now, I only lost about 5-10% FTP, despite having been off the bike completely since early September. Naturally, I erred on the ambitious side with 5% and went with 230 as my current FTP. According to last night's test, I was pretty close. 233W @ 143 lbs (3.6 W/kg). I'm relatively satisfied with this starting point, though I must consider my general state of fatigue going forward. That simply means less time at 80/95% and more time at 85/100% for Z3/Z4 intervals.
Let the fun begin. It's time to drop 3 lbs and add 30 Watts.
dana, that's some serious testing I must say; and at 2.2 w/kg (for a tiny person), I would not want top meet you anywhere on ANY climb. stay away form me ;-) good luck on your run test
Comments
@Jenn - you make me feel unworthy to be a power noob! awesome work!
So now I guess I need to add the FTP and zone stuff into my joule - oh, and I figured out how to upload my garmin run workouts from my 310xt to training peaks, so that's cool... it's a process; I'm getting there.
Jenn may be teaching us a lesson we didn't want to learn -- practice makes perfect!
Becky, quick question . . . are you able to upload directly from your 310xt into Training Peaks without first downloading into GarminConnect? If so, how?
Linda, so glad to hear that. Funny, my wife says the same thing sometimes, without the same numbers; mine are 196/229 start/end of OS last year; start this year is 175. I'm still trying to come up with a term for what I'm going through: healing, repair, rehabilitation, recovery, rejuvenation, rebuilding, resurrection, reincarnation.
Truly, Al, it warms my heart to read how you are coming back too. I could not be happier for you, and I can read between the lines how difficult it is. Make no mistake--how you and Keith are putting things back together, that's when I use the word heroic. Everyday, true heroes. Good and honorable men doing real, difficult work do the best you can, to be the best you can be. That comes from the soul.
As we both know, language can't even begin to describe what you both endured--and what your wife and I handled. I like the words you chose, and they work for me. I know I'll never be the same. But I'm trying the use the experience to futher temper what is good and strong in me, rather than allowing the trauma to leave a piece of me shriveled and scared. I could go on all day. This is one heck of a journey, that's all I know.
arrrgghhhh
late in getting the test done and now will be later.... blew up after 10 minutes at 220..... any ideas on what i should target for my next attempt? and how long should i wait?
btw from doing a few 3x8s in pre OS training, i think that i problaby should have been around 205-210, of course it felt too easy when i first got going and amped it up....
My 2 cents:
Getting a hard 10 minutes in may be a good way to be ready for the test today. There's evidence out there that a good hard SHORT effort the day before a longer effort is a good thing. It's not enough to really deplete you. I say get back on that horsey and tape over the watts readout and go as hard as you can, pacing yourself, knowing its a long haul. You know how you feel when you're sitting just below blow up. That's where you want to be and that will create your number to work from. Look inside, not outside at the usuckometer to find out how hard you can go.
After a while you'll know by looking at your cadence and particular gear you're in as what you're pushing watts wise.
Good luck.
cm
Guess I got to start somewhere!!
Looking forward to what's coming!!!
WARNING: Don't attempt an FTP test less than 8 hours after a 5K test. I learned this the hard way this morning. I have been struggling with the mojo lately. So much so that I bailed on the FTP test on Monday. I was finally feeling good to go last night, didn't have access to my bike do thought I would crank out the 5K test. As I reported in the run thread this went super well
.
I woke up feeling that same high as last night to decided to give the FTP test a try. STUPID. I was doing fine for the first 20' holiding between 210-215. A few times I had to get up out of the saddle to get the rpms back up, but overall was happy. Then came the second 20'. I totally blew up within the first 5 minutes. I struggled through as best I could and ended up with an NP of 199. This is down from a high of 225.
I am not excited about this, but given the timing and the fact that this is one of the few times I have ridden since Oct I will take it. Like every one says at least I know where I stand, and can only go up.
Streching and resting hard so that I can attempt tomorrow's bike workout.
Great job everyone!
I completely, totally and 100% agree with that. I've seen it work in my own training for decades. A complete day off--for me--before a race or TT will lead to poorer results than doing the following the day before--a warm-up, ~10 serious minutes, then a cool down. I have no scientific basis, no research to site--complete anecdotal evidence. I think it's that little drop in vital capacity that comes after a day off, but that is totally a guess. The trick is to keep your eye on the prize, and not turn that day-before effort into an hour workout.
i get this part, but if i tape over the watts and go by feel, won't it feel easy in the beginning, causing me to ride at higher watts that just get lower as i can't hold them? i could have lowered my watts substantially and kept going today, i have thought the idea is to try and hold a wattage level for the entire session...
Scott,
If you think you should have held 205-210, start your first 20' @ 205. Then keep it there until the 15' mark. If you feel strong, bump it up to 210' for the final 5'. For the second 20' start @ 205 again, if you can hold it for 10' and still feel strong, bump it up a little bit each minute.
The goal is to be as steady as possible, but if you can build throughout and leave nothing in the tank at the end, you have perfectly executed your test.
BTW, were you doing 205-210 for each of your 8' Pre OS workouts? If so, were you feeling strong afterward like you could bang out another, or were you pooped. If pooped, take my guidance above and subtract 5 watts.
Good luck,
Dave
Run test tomorrow - looking forward to that even less. But considering how my season went last year, I guess I'll be trying harder on the run this year.
Nice to get things going again.
The net is that you're finding out and that's the point- to have a good working number.
5 watts short of my start last year---no surprise, really.
I didn't cry for my mommy---who, in reality, would tell me to nut up and get it done. The real limiter I think was mental---there aren't any 42 minute climbs on the mountain bike around here (an excuse to move to CO!). About 12 minutes into it, I was waiting for a nice downhill section. Ha!
Jenn: Holy mental 6-pack! That's alot of testing! Good on ya for figuring out that half the battle with these tests is pacing correctly!
LP: I'm impressed with Keith's test. Truly. The amount of anabolic stress and metabolic rebuilding that occurs after a trauma (the accident and subsequent operations) is tremendous. As Leigh wisely put it to me the other day, you're redlining in another way. If it could all be measured in TSS, the IF would be through the roof and the time involved is months. Al, I'm including you in this group too. I wish you and Keith a strong and steady rebuild and comeback!
Let's rock and roll, Team JOS!
Kitboo, aint' it a beatch comin' from all the outdoor fun to do one of these 2x20's? Glad you got it done.
Enjoy your 2x'much shorter than 20' on your next work out.
Dave
Oh Kitima, I "heart" your mom and we haven't even met. She musta made you one tough cookie! Nice job!
I'm debating adding a resistance unit to the rollers (Kreitler 4.5" drums) as I'm getting a little close to spinning these out (running 28 mph at 200 watts and 28 mph is LOUD) or getting a trainer. Any recommendations? I've primarily been looking at the CycleOps Fluid 2, Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, or 1up USA. While I'd love the Computrainer, these fit my budget a little bit better...
@Kitima--thank you for that. I just read it aloud to Keith, which helps him to hear that. He's got another journey ahead of him, but he's up to the challenge.
Nice work everybody! Super motivating reading all this stuff.
Day 1 today (on the trainer), 40' bike: 18.8km, avg 28.2km/hr, cadence 83. Avg HR very low though, 137. I shouldve went harder but the junk just keeps going numb!
My test sucked, but was exactly what I suspected. I had major surgery Nov 17 and am technically still recovering (hematacrit and ferritin levels still a little low--but overall doing great and have clearance from doc).
Here's the deets (BTW, this is embarrassing given what I've been reading about here!!):
Duration: 33:07
Distance: 10.00 miles
Avg Speed: 18.11 mph
Avg Power: 134.5
Avg w/kg: 2.20
FTP: 124
NP: 135.54
IF: 1.09
VI: 1.01
TSS: 65.96
Avg HR: 181
I should also say I have no idea what all this means, expect that I am weak on the bike. But, a least I have a baseline and can (hopefully) only go up from here!!
Next up....run test!!
There shall be no embarassment in the JOS. We are the Regular Joes!
Be very patient with yourself and just build build build. It's a long haul and surgery takes a toll. You shall be amazed if you just work the plan and forget the comparisons.
Good luck!
Let the fun begin. It's time to drop 3 lbs and add 30 Watts.
good luck on your run test
Thanks for the encouraging words. I realize this is only one point in time and am excited about improvements to come!!
I feel I really excelled on my day off today---mentally I handled it very well, and physically the dog walking didn't hurt at all!!
Dana