Need help with new bike purchase!
Okay guys so I need some help from the EN Fam! I’m most defiantly due a new bike, so I’m finally biting the bullet and buying a bike. So I went and fit on a exit fit bike with the Retul system just to see what my best options are to get an idea of what they would be with a more aero setup. Below are my numbers from the Retul system:
Seat Angle - 80 Degree
My aerobar set up VT 270 with a Arione Tri 2 saddle
A. Saddle Height - 73
b. Setback - +2.0
C. Cockpit - 72.5
d. aerobar - 34.0
e. armrest drop - 11cm
F. Saddle / Armrest - 41.8
G. Armrest width - 22cm
Aerobar tilt - 0 degree
saddle tilt - -1.0
frame stack - 53.0
Frame reach - 40.0
Build Notes:
crankarm length - 172.5 Standard
Pedal - SPD-R
So the 2 bikes I’m looking at are pretty close in numbers and they are:
Orbea Ordu (51)- Stack = 513 Reach = 395
Trek 7 series (M) – Stack = 517 Reach = 408
So Bike shop A is selling the Ordu and is the same place that I got the Retul fitting. They are a well known tri shop that most of us know that does many, many bike fittings a year and a have very nice bike fitting studio and are ranked high on slowtwitch. However, when I buy the ordu from them they are just going to set up the bike to the numbers that we came up with on the Retul system and send me on my way. They will do 1 follow up fitting a couple months after I’ve been on the bike for a while but that’s about it. Anything after that I would have to pay for a refit. Plus, you have to schedule a fitting time and I feel like once your time is up then they must move on to the next fit.
Now Shop B has the Trek and they are not as well known in the tri scene but they are a reputable shop here in Atlanta which also sell a lot of tri bikes and probably the most road bikes out of any shop in Georgia. I gave these guys my Retul numbers and they set up 2 bikes for me just to try out. We spent about 2 hours just tying out bikes and setting me up to make sure they are a good fit, which was all free, they just want my business. It seems like they know what they are doing and they do have a fit bike (not sure which one) and they use Dartfish motion capture. The plus about these guys is I feel like they will spend 2+ hours getting me set up on my bike once I buy from them and then at any point I can bring it back in for adjustments for free, when shop A will charge you for this. They also offer free tune-ups to your bike for a lifetime.
Price wise it is about a wash, I’m just really unsure which one to go with so I was reaching out to you guys for advise as to what you would do? I don’t feel like shop B has as much high tech fitting equipment but they have to know what they are doing, they are probably the second biggest bike shop in Atlanta, only second to shop A. The trek seems a little long for me on the numbers but once I got on it it felt good and I think for the money it is a better deal.
So any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
Seriously, I wouldn't worry too much about which shop you think has better fitting dudes. After you get the initial setup done, you can work with TTBikefit to really dial in the aero fit (yes, will cost more- but I'm gonna bet Todd can get you fit better than either of the shops).
One thing I would consider is how knowledgable each shops bike monkeys are with working on TT bikes from that manufacturer, and how readily available other Authorized Dealers are in your area. Having had to deal with a warranty frame replacement and living 2 hours away from the closest Authorized Dealer was a bit of a PITA. If I'd owned a Trek I could have saved myself quite a bit of time. Additionally, not having a local shop close to home that knows the specific tweaks of my brand bike also makes me very nervous at times of bringing the bike in for work (and sure, the Felt Bayonette has had it's fair share of problems). Anyway, it's just a little like buying a German car and living in an area where they only know how to fix Fords.
Any chance you know what size stems and how many spacers you need to run on both of the bikes to get to the right fit?
Is this your first fit and tri bike or are you pretty set with this position and think you will stay in it for the foreseeable future?
I have not rode a Trek 7 series (only the 9 series), but I rode an ordu from April to Oct last year. The ordu rides great, very stiff yet comfortable and not a rough ride at all. However the Trek's SC series definitely has a better reputation for being more aero.
As long as they are not setting up either bike with an extreme stem to start out with, I would make the decision based on your gut and which shop/brand you like more. Only you can decide what free-tunes ups and adjustments are to worth to you. Don't let the high tech equipment trick you, there are many good fitters that use basic tools and many fitters that are not good but have the latest tools.
It sounds like you are you have two very good shops to work with on a new bike, but I thought I would mention that will have a 2010 51cm Ordu frameset for sale in Jan or Feb. If you don't have existing components use and don't like working on bikes yourself it will likely be a bette for you to stick with a new bike from a shop, however I wanted to mention that just in case.
Here is my 2 cents. I do not consider myself an expert by any means, I did read all Dan's articles on fitting, understand the fitting process just enough to be dangerous, have assisted my fitter at arriving at my own riding position applying the FIST principles.
First, Retul system is just a tool. If the tech is not very skilled in using it, there is very little or no benefit from it. In the end it is the fitter and not the Retul.
Few questions that I would ask myself:
Was I given enough attention during the interview process, it should have proceeded the actual fit?
Were the wright questions asked?
Was the fitter listening carefully to address your needs?
So, answer some of these.
Here is what caught my eye in your specs. Not stack and reach.
Orbea Ordu and Speed Concept 7 you say. OK. Your effective SA 80 degrees, saddle setback +2cm, I understand that as your saddle nose 2cm ahead of the bottom bracket..........
To the best of my knowledge, Orbea Ordu has a relatively slack SA, tall and narrow bike. I am lazy to pull it up side to side next to Trek. You have been positioned according to Retul spec very forward, at 80 degrees, which on Orbea will most likely result in your saddle being nearly all the way forward, maybe 1cm left. You have to check on this, big time.
Why? As your position evolves, you will want to increase your aerobar drop and get lower. In order to rotate around the BB, you will have to keep pushing the saddle forward to preserve the hip angle. You may run out of saddle rail travel for that purpose before you arrive at your optimum drop. I hope I am clear enough.
From that stand point, I think Trek maybe a better fit for you as it has 78 degree SA to start. This is pretty big deal. If you are concerned with Trek's reach spec, you can without any issues go for a 10mm shorter stem and solve that. It is not that critical for handling at all on tri bikes, you can allow for a little shorter stem to normalize the reach.
In the end, the attitude of your shop A is unsat in my book, I would go with shop B, but be armed with some knowledge, trust and verify here or elsewhere. Keep in mind that it is more important to have a fitter that will meet your needs and set you on a proper bike, will work with you repeatedly to adjust and evolve your position as you grow as cyclist than going to a bike brand or a fancy bike shop.
Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps and I am here to answer more if I can be useful. Buying a bike is a big deal.
Little further look at Ordu, it shows 3 seat post positions and far forward being 78 degrees. That should be ok in that case. So, your call based on the flavor that the shop left in your mouth. Which shop would you trust more in a long term relationship.
This all comes back to if you see your position continuing to evlove and go lower or if you are already in a low and agreesive postion. Obviously people's bodies are different but if you are on a small frame with a 73cm saddle height and 11 cm of drop, you will most likely only go a few CM lower at most. There are definitely exceptions but usually 11cm would be a pretty good drop for most people your size. FWIW, my saddle height is 75cm and I ride with a 13.5 cm drop which most fitters consider pretty extreme for someone my size to ride at IM distance.
I also agree wiht both Aleksandar and Nemo, if shop B just gave you a better feeling and you will be going back for other services that allow is a good enough reason to go there and get that bike.
One last question to add to the other ones I mentioned... have you actually rode in this new position for an extended period of time? What feels great during a fit doesn't always feel the same after 3+ hours in the saddle. It should, but it doesn't always.
Matt is correct. I was not familiar enough with Ordu. Both good bikes for you.
I have an Ordu, and it rides like a dream. I did an initial bike fit back in July and haven't been back to the shop since, so not much need for follow up care (although, it's available!). You'll love it!!
@Matt, I know on the Trek I'll have no spacers and we will have to put a different stim on to get me lower which I intend to do. Maybe add a spacer then a deeper angle stem so I can get to around -13 if my body will let me.
- It's about my 3rd time I've been fit and it will be my second tri bike. My current bike I've had for 5 years and are don't really have an aggressive set up, that's one thing I want to achieve with this bike. I think that I'll set the bike up as low as my body will let me and then maybe next year I can get a little lower if I need to.
-Ummmmmmmm........I don't have any components and I've never really worked on my bike much but not to say I don't want to learn. Can you let me know the details and what you would let it go for?
-Thanks for the advice, they are both great shops I just feel the not so popular shop gave me so much attention, plus they have carry the Trek which is also great.
@Aleksandar - I feel like both fitters asked good questions and were very detailed but I just felt like one shop was a little better at this then the other.
-I never thought about running out of saddle, thanks for bringing this to my attention.
-Yeah, I feel like I need to arm myself with some knowledge and questions the next time I go in there to make certain that I can trust Shop B but I think I'll find that they will know it all. Like you said, I think Shop B will work with me as I evolve just because they are not as big as shop A and I can get more attention and help with my position.
@Matt - No I have not ridden in this new position. There are some pretty drastic changes to this new bike fit, we are lowering the set about 1.5 cm, my current drop is around -8 so that is coming pretty far down. I currently ride on the nose of my saddle (easy to figure out because my saddles nose is completely worn out) so I need to make adjustments to fix this too. My goal is to eventually get to around 13 if my body will let me but we will see, I know I can't just make that big of a jump at first though.
Thanks for all the help guys,
While I don't know the Ordu, everything I've read on the Trek SC is that is has lots of flexibility on different riding positions. This was a factor my brother thought was critical is his decision purchase.
Concerning the shops, I'd also ask yourself "Which shop will be the one I want to go to for the next couple of years to get some work done and buy things like tires? A shop that gets to know you and take care of your needs can be very helpful in the future.
In the end - they are both great bikes - can't really miss either way.....
Whatever way you go, however, enjoy the new bike!
Michael,
The Trek SC is new for 2011 so the shop won't be looking to discount it for inventory reasons. I've also never seen a Trek SC for anything less than MSRP on the internet either.