What's your over doing it "tell"?
Looking over the powerclinic thread and examining my wattage numbers I realize that my limiting factor must be related to my physiology having to do with lungs/respiration. My 'tell' for pushing too hard for me right when I start making lots of forward progress is that I wake up and cough to clear my throat and taste what appears to be dirt. This is when I know I am turning the corner for a downward spiral and need to back off, which then leads to walking the tightrope of making progress, getting sicker, taking lots of time off/losing fitness, etc.
It is a frustrating see saw that I noticed in 2008 for the first time as that was the first year I pushed my body with any threshold work.
What's your 'over-reaching/over doing it' tell and how do you manage it?
Vince
Comments
Vince - have you had a thorough pulmonary (and cardiac) eval? Not my specialty, but I would think you'd want to R/O things like subtle infection (TB, coccidomycosis), restricted airway, or even occult heart lesion. Someone who's done a lot of endurance training over years should have perceived muscle strength/endurance as a limiter, not peceived cardio/respiratory issues.
Having given that hopefully unecessary suggestion, my own feedback loop for overtraining (actually, over-reaching, which is a prior stage I think) starts with personality/emotional changes - testiness, short-tempered, intolerance, accompanied by a sense of profound total body exhasution. The most obvious sign in me is just not being able to eat enough - slowly losing weight despite stuffing myself (I'm someone who weighs himself 1-2 times a day, first hting in AM and last an night, on a body fat scale). resting heart rate elevtion sometimes hapens, but not usually.
Al,
Great suggestions. Answer is NO. I did have a treadmill EKG for a life insurance policy in October and apparently they only test people out of shape as I ran longer than anyone they've testing in 11 years. That noted, the cardiologist still noted that even with a stellar EKG/treadmill that I could have up to 69% blockage of a main cardiac artery and perform like I did. The newer test is a heartscan with CT to look at slices of my arteries for blockage. That will be scheduled in Jan. $350 well spent in my opinion as I was once obese and my family history has heart disease/attacks with sudden death.
My father was a 2-3 pack per day smoker and often we were in closed quarters.
My last TB test was negative but that was some time ago. I will walk next door and visit my MD and inquire about R/O what you mentioned.
I appreciate what you mentioned also about your overtraining/reaching tells. So you don't get sick easily then?
Vince
Vince
Seriously, I do not think I have ever been close to over training or pushing too hard. Never had the time. Even though I run almost every day, or because I run almost every day, I have a pretty good sense of my overall training load and adjust intensity accordingly.
I look at it this way. I should be able to do every singe workout in a training plan as written and not be in any danger of over training, right? How many of us actually do every single workout in the plans for a long period of time? Are you going every single workout in the plan plus a lot more? Even if so chances are you are not adding in lots of FTP intervals or T pace running so you should be fine.
That's what is interesting. I cannot do training plans without falling apart at some point. I did do more than the training plan around Thanksgiving...I will admit it but it's not like it was THAT much outside the box. I didn't ramp up to a 15 hour week or even hold 10 hours for a couple weeks. My PMC says that I was good to go.
I'm also not an island from examining my patient population. The athletes that I take care of that are like you are interesting. They pound their bodies and continue to improve almost linearly compared to those of us that take 2 steps forward and 1.9 steps back. Training for my first IM left me with 6 months of no sexual interest (believe me it wasn't my fiance's fault), no drive to work, workout, heart palpitations with 1.5 hr bike rides when I would creep into Z4 effort for just minutes, exhausted (sleeping 10 hours/night regularly).
Consider youself blessed and keep up the good work.
Vince
I have a couple of "tells": sleep disruption is the first. The second is a general emotional resistance to training; I'll get out there but the willingness is on the wane.
When I actually listen to these signs and back off life is good. All too often I've pushed through, dug the hole deeper, and been forced to take time off.
I know I'm not alone in that bad cycle.
Interesting for you to observe that. Even youth has its limits. So, if I understand you correctly you son did less work, absorbed more and was faster than had he pushed harder during training? That is ideal. Less work = better results. Isn't that why some golfers love certain clubs more than others, larger sweetspot and less need to practice :-).
Vince
Looks like sleep is a common denominator for you guys. Interesting as some need much more sleep but you two experience less due to disruption. Good that you recognize that.
I have a pro female Triathlete that will jerk so hard as she falls asleep that she wakes and cannot go back to sleep. This is her "tell" to just do a recovery 1-2 days instead of what is on the plan. If she jerks but can fall asleep she goes ahead as planned.
Vince
For whatever reason, more "rest" allowed him to take the gains made in training and push even beyond them in races. Over and over the races got better and better. Before the adjustments in volume for him, he'd train like a madman with the guys, make spectacular gains that just wouldn't translate on race day. He'd get "flat" sooner than most others on the team. Hold him back a little more, rest him up, and then he could translate the training gains into performance. It was fascinating to watch. But believe me, at his age, he didn't want to listen. More was more and more was better. It took some head beating to get through.
I honestly feel the worst when I rest and tapering is by far the absolute hardest time of the year for me. I'm a complete mess during the taper, everything hurts, I'm in a bad mood the entire time, etc.
I typically figure out I'm over doing it after I have already over done it... but usually I can snap back after a few easy days or a day off.
Oh man, that's such a universal truth. It should be such a happy, laid back time, but it's awful, isn't it? Most of us feel the worst ever--exactly as you describe.
Vince,
IIRC you had some weird hormonal stuff going on right? Did you get that figured out? Is what you are experiencing now different? That really does not sound "right" to me although I am not even qualified to play a Dr. on TV.
Sounds like unlike a lot of you I need the power/pace stuff as a whip, otherwise I will convince myself to go super slow/easy most of the time. Even when I want to kill myself I usually run out of time to do so properly. The most dangerous times for me are when I travel for work and find myself with morning and evenings without other responsibilities. Luckily I am not gone long enough to hurt myself.
In this holiday season which has me feeling blessed for a lot of other reasons I will be even more thankful and add this one to the list
Oh and I actually kind like tapering and really like resting.
That jerking is almost me to a T. Unfortunately, it turns out of all of my siblings do it as well. (Funny as hell when our respective spouses sit around and compare "war wounds" from sleeping next to any of us- but I digress.)
Normally I am like an old fashioned doll, once I am horizontal, my eyes close and I am out for the night and sleep like I am dead. If jerking is really bothersome, I am instructed to get up and stretch, this does improve it. My tell is same as Nemo and Bill, if I am not sleeping like the dead, I am seriously grouchy.
I learned from my vacation that my limit of going without exercise is 2 weeks. I was extremely agitated and restless. Tried to relax by the pool without relief. Went to the gym and after 40 minutes on the stairmaster I was the same except sweaty. 25 minutes on the treadmill at top speed and I FINALLY felt relaxed. Weird.
I guess over the years I've learned how not to tip from over-reaching to over training. Last two years, the only colds I've gotten were literally the week after IM AZ, the start of my annual 3-6 week down time. Also, theory is that if one is over 50, he's been exposed to most rhinoviruses, so colds are harder to get. Hmmm... now that I think of it, there was that award I got in seocnd grade for not missing a day of school - maybe I do have a strong immune system!
Im to new to know any tells sadly Im sure I will learn when I truly hit a wall.
I think I have the hormonal stuff figured out. I will have another panel done next week as it's time.
Oddly, I did my bike wo during lunch after I started this thread. I figured I would fail based upon how I felt but planned on holding 100% FTP for the first 20 mins then eek it up a little on the 2nd 20'. I held 276 np and 286 np with 3 of my last 5 mins of interval #2 @ 325ish! My breathing wasn't labored in fact as I drilled along at 80 rpms (trainer) my HR was 165-168, which is my running LT but my breathing wasn't challenged. I wish I felt that way more than 1-2x/year. The last time I felt like that was during an IM swim. I could pull as hard as I wanted on the water and I couldn't out effort my breathing. I only experienced that wonderful feeling 1x in 2008 and now 1x in 2009. Weird.
Vince
That sounds good all around!
Dude!! Are you serious? You need to push that envelope a bit more!! ;-)
I have certainly tested the edge many times over. I don't schedule days off -- I just take one when I feel I need one. Having said that, I probably average a day off about every 3 weeks (general prep through race prep). I suspect we all adjust intensity accordingly. I think you have to in order to survive an IM training schedule.
My typical over-reaching symptoms are insomnia and developing an irritable attitude.
Thanks, Chris
Early on in my tri career I worried that periods of low-to-zero motivation meant that it was over forever and I'd never like running again. Now I realize that my bouts of overtraining/need for recovery periods are cyclical - I now know that I need about a month at the end of every season to putz around and not really follow any sort of training plan - and brief and episodic - I have been known to sometimes take that 4th recovery week completely off and then just jump back into the plan.
Vince