Epic fail on vdot test today...what vdot to use for training?
First 5k VDOT test in the EN haus today and it did not go well. I am totally new to any kind of structured training. Sorry for the long post. Any of this group’s wisdom on this situation would be most appreciated. As I get more experience and knowledgeable I hope I’ll pay you all back!
Background:
- 5k race PB of 20:34 set in Oct (vdot 48.2, 6:37/mi)
- Best recent vdots of 49.2 (15k race in early Nov, 6:55/mi), and 48.8 (half marathon race in early Sept, 7:07/mi)
- Over the past year my vdot has always been higher in longer distance races
My goal today was to hit sub-20:45. Given I have never done a TT test before, my major concern going into the test was if I would be able to achieve “racing speed” without a racing environment. As it turns out, this was not the problem.
The run:
- 10:00 warmup, averaged 6:42/mi. Felt good, really easy. I think we may call this “poor execution from the very start”
- Rested 2 mins
- Test: pace for each of the first 3 km: 6:18, 6:25, 6:52 (uh…)
- TEST FAILED at 3.05km. Had to stop. Could not keep going at any kind of “racing speed”. If it was a race? I don’t know what would have happened, but I assure you that standing there today I swore to myself I would have had to stop regardless.
- Pace for each of the next 1.53 miles (which I did to make sure the workout wasn’t wasted): 6:55, 6:53, 6:57. Traffic light issue on the last one. Felt really good, not hard at all, even after the testing debacle.
My take on this is that the “warmup” pacing ensured this would be a disaster, and then my fate was sealed when I started at a 6:18 pace in the first km. So it was a pacing issue pure and simple.
Garmin record of today’s shenanigans: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/62110486
A couple of questions:
So the major question is what VDOT to use for training paces. A few options:
- Retest on the weekend instead of the OS run workout (although I’m probably going to have to swap the bike and run days for family reasons, so run would be Saturday, and I don’t want to be trashed before the brick which would be on Sunday). Per Coach P’s post on 12/23 this is probably not recommended.
- Fairly recent historical 49 (average of the recent half-marathon and 15k)
- Fairly recent historical 48.2 from 5k
- I could also use a VDOT derived from the average pace that I held in the 3.4 miles of warmup+test (so 0.3 longer than a 5k). As it happens this was a pace of 6:37 and would equate to a 20:33 5k, which is within a second of my racing PB. Of course I did rest for 2 mins after the warmup.
I know the key thing is to make sure your training paces are appropriate (and so you all will probably say I’m over-thinking this, and I know RnP basically say “chalk it up to a bad test and move on”, but any input is really appreciated. I’m pretty bummed to write this whole long post…the thought that I’d blow up in a 5k never crossed my mind.
Thanks for your patience to those who read this whole thing...
Matt
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Comments
What has your training been like since the two races that you had a vdot of 49?
If you have kept up with some decent amount a training I would start out use the 48 to 49 as a range or zone and see how it feels.
If you took a break, start out at 46 to 47 depening on how long the break was.
When in doubt I would go with a lower vdot for your first EN OS and structured training. You are better off working slighly under your true vdot for the first few weeks while your body is adapting rather than trying to hold the best vdot you ever had and risking over doing it.
See how your body adapts and after 4 weeks re-assess. If the run workouts seem supper easy then re-test and up your vdot after proving it in a test.
I would therefore think you're fine at 47, which is only one point off your October best...not bad if you've not been training hard in between. Give it a few weeks and re-test.
Depending on which plan you're doing, by week 4-5, you'll have run sessions that are 2 x 1.5 miles or 2 x 2 miles. Personally, I would see no harm in re-testing a 5K at the end of 4 weeks, for example. You could easily reverse the Sat brick and Sun run, so that the Sun run was on Sat. Then you'd have had a moderate day on Thurs, and a day off on Friday. Saturday, you do a 5K test instead of 2 x 1.5 or 2 x 2 mi, and Sunday you do the brick...maybe suffering a little for having done the 5K day before, but no biggie.
So takeaway #1 is not to re-test this week. Makes a lot of sense. I’ll do another test in week 4 as suggested.
Since the 15k race in Nov I've being doing 3 runs a week totaling 20-22 miles/week (one 10-11 miler, the rest 4-6 miles). The exception is the last week and a half over the holidays where I managed 2 runs totaling 8 miles. I consider the last week and a half more of a "taper" than a hiatus. For my pre-EN self 20-22 miles/week qualifies as a "decent amount", although I suppose for the EN norm it probably isn't.
Takeaway #2 seems to be that some "art" is allowed here, in addition to the science....
Looking at the OS plan, it seems all the running in the first 4 weeks is z3/z4. So the key is get the right z3/z4 paces, right? It looks like:
VDOT 47: z3=7:21, z4=7:12
VDOT 48: z3=7:13, z4=7:05
VDOT 49: z3=7:06, z4=6:58
(btw, am I doing that right??? The two paces look awfully similar. I’m using the T pace from Attackpoint for z4 and for z3 using HMP based on HM projected time for that vdot)
Looking at my runs over the past 2 months – pre-EN and generally paced at “going for run” steady (no intervals / pace variance):
- everything in the 4-6 mile range ends up with a 6:45-6:55 pace, and I’m pretty beat at the end
- the 10-11 milers end up at 6:58-7:08, and I’m fine at the end
I also had no issue with 6:55/6:53/6:57 in the 3 miles after the failed test today, could have gone another 20 mins to round out an hour.
It seems most of the OS runs are ~60 mins, which at those paces is 8-9 miles. At my usual 10-11 miler pace I should be able to hold z4 of the 48 vdot the whole time and not be dead at the end of the run. In fact I could almost do that at the 49 vdot. But then again, I’m going to be doing that distance twice a week now, plus 2 brick runs…higher volume than I’m used to.
A final consideration is that my relative speed decrease as distance ramps up seems lower than what Daniels’ vdot curve predicts.
So maybe I should bang on the 49 vdot paces for a few weeks and see how that works???? Or will the increased volume of the EN plan (~4 runs a week, ~24 miles) creep up on me and kill me?
Since you did not take a real break from training your run fitness should be the same still. Start with the 48-49 targets as zones and see how it feels after 4 weeks.
Like you said, chalk it up as a bad test and move on.
BTW you did figue out the right paces but you can just use he EN data tool and it will do it all for you.
matt:
this was a good post. i enjoyed reading thru it and seeing the advice of the others.
i noticed a trend in your desriptions, of steady running thru the assigned workouts. sounds like you are running at one pace, albeit pretty fast for your current level. that's good and will make you more fit to handle the longer runs and races. this is probably why your vdot is always higher at 13.1 vs.3.2 miles.
however, i'd also try to focus in on building your 'gears' when training. the OS runs have HMP for _min, then MP for _min, or T-pace for whatever min. Really try to nail those paces, especially the ones at T-pace or interval pace. in the pure running world, Fartlek efforts within a tempo workout accomplish this effect. i think this will help in your execution of the shorter distance vdot tests and thus make you fast at more than one gear or distance.
maybe you already do this and i misunderstood.
good luck!
GH