EN-adjusted run zones. What's up with Z3?
![[Deleted User]](https://us.v-cdn.net/6029573/uploads/defaultavatar/nNPD77K9K824F.jpg)
Now that I'm in the final weeks of the OS plan and I'm back to more threshold work, I've had trouble getting in Z3 work on the runs. For example, twice this week I did 2 x 1 mile at Z4 and then wanted to get in some Z3 work (20 min or so). However, both were on days following some pretty tough bike workouts. So, naturally, my legs were not as fresh as when I test for my vdot. The Z4 work feels more like Z5, but I can at least maintain the pace for the intervals. My Z3 pace is apparently only 3sec slower per mile than Z4 according to the data tool...what's up with that? Still feels just as hard as Z4 pace (which felt like Z5). I usually can't pull it off and end up around Z2 pace.
Do others adjust their vdot to account for the difference in rested vs. non-rested legs, like you would for race-day pacing?
Anybody else have trouble distinguishing between Z3 and Z4? If Z3 work after a main set is feeling tough, do you still push hard to at least maintain a Z2 pace or do you forget about and drop down to Z1? I'm wondering if there's a grey zone I should be avoiding and if Z2 falls in it.
Comments
Trouble on the run is usually indicative of too much
On the bike. I do a bit more bike than assigned inthe OS
But once the runs suffer, I tone the bike training down.
Gh
Thing is, I am changing my focus to run Boston and will to be doing things more in line with my normal marathon training from pre-EN days. I'll still stay on the NOS for bike and scheduling, but runs will be a little different that in the OS or the Hack.
Not a difinitive answer like a WSM would have but it is all I got......
2 other things to consider are: #1 - you are deep into a long training cycle and your body is probably nearing readiness for a week or two of transition time; #2 - you always need to remember that the EN way IS hard...by design. Whatever you are feeling, when you come out of this 20 weeks of training, i bet you will be faster than you were and it will all be worth it!
I would also add that pace is a metric which has some environmental variations that don't exist in our bike workouts. On the bike, a watt is a watt. During the run, hills, wind, etc can influence your RPE at a given pace, even though you have your vdot paces.
First off, you are really quite fast, so, like Keith says, the difference starts to evaporate. Should you be able to feel the difference between two paces that are 3 seconds apart? No, not really. Last OS, I had my Vdot up to about 57, and I think that they were about 5 seconds apart. What I did was to either go to Z4 for intervals, or if it was a "do some Z3 work after the interval portion of the workout" part, I'd swap for Z2, instead. Otherwise, it was just too much on my system.
Especially in the OS, if you are getting the main set done, you're doing it right. The rest is all subject to what you can do and recover.
Just like Keith said ... however I'll add another thought about the source of the zones and how I treat this situation.
Z4 - TP is meant to be the pace you can hold about an hour, this is a pace Jack Daniels created (and many other coaches). He does not have a HMP zone but instead provides advice on how to adjust TP for different workouts (i.e. steady state run vs cruise intervals)
Z3 - HMP was created by RnP and is closer to the steady state run TP as for most people is it a little bit under their TP and therefore they can hold if for longer without the same recovery needs, . HMP is of course based on the pace you can hold for a open half marathon that you tapered for. With your VDOT you should be running a sub 75' half marathon and that is why your Z3 and Z4 are now so close. I believe at a vdot of 70 they become exactly the same pace.
I personally treat Z3 and Z4 as basically interchangable. Somedays I aim for Z4 but come up short and end up at Z3 and other days doing Z3 work I feel great and end up with Z4 numbers. There are so close that I see very little difference anymore.
Many times I have trouble with the "run the remainder at Z3" part of workouts as that is basically saying now run the rest of the time at same pace you just held for the intervals. What I like to do is recover from the last interval at Z1-EP, then kick it up to Z2-MP for a bit and then start to slowly ramp back up to Z3 so I am finishing up the workout at Z3.
Great input. Guess I never put 2 and 2 together...Z3 approaching Z4 the more you raise your vDot. Will definitely keep the comments in mind on the next "try to accumulate more Z3" remainder part of a run. Makes sense to dial it back a bit based on the planned remainder time and perhaps, as Matt does, try to ramp it back up at the end. Thanks again!