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Recovery question

Context:

Last year I worked off of the recovery/periodization concept as presented in Joe Friel's Triathlete Training Bible. Loosely, I understood it as a "3 week on" and "1 week off" (off meaning 5-7 days of recovery-style workouts) cycle. Obviously in the haus, we are on a 2 or 3 days on vs. 1 day off model in the OS. I also understand that everyone has different abilities to absorb work and/or  different recovery needs (age, fitness level, genes, etc.). There is also clearly a significant mental component in making the switch between the two paradigms independent of the physical one. Similalrly clear (at least I think it is clear, but may be wrong) there is an implicit, if not explicit, operating belief in the haus that the longer work/recovery cycle (what I want to call periodization) is bunk.

Question:

I am not questioning whether or not EN work/recovery cycle is wrong (especially given the fairly large data set that indicates that it is very right), rather, I wonder how long (generally and with the above "everbody is different" caveats in place) it takes to make the physical adaptation to the higher intensity/shorter recovery paradigm? I'm sure there is no one specific answer to that, but curious if anyone had any thoughts. I suppose it is a long-winded way of expressing a nagging concern I have had that, while I am making significant progress and am not hurt, there is some chance that the 20 weeks of the OS is not allowing enough recovery time to fully consolidate fitness for those not yet adapted to the different paradigm (and wonder if I am one of those).

Perhaps ironically, I post this question after at least teeing up every workout of 11 weeks of OS (and probably 75% of them done as written with only a couple completed substanitally below what was written) and my best bike workout of the year...

Comments

  • Art,

    This is an excellent question and one I was thinking about the other day.  Why is there no 'recovery week' during the OS?

    In a sense, my answer to myself was that the test weeks tend to serve as recovery weeks.  However, that's still not a true recovery.

    Also worth mentioning as an add on to your question, the OS jumped from 16 to 20 weeks last year, and this year, there's a substantial amount of 'work' that's been added to the Saturday sessions, i.e. 2x20' FT, then 5x2.5 @ 120%.

    I'll be interested to read the explanation.

    Dave

  •  I am not an EN veteran by any means. I have also, like you trained using JF guidance and so with great success. I am also sure that coaches and WSM will chime in here shortly. I will just share some thoughts and observations.

    1. To answer your question on general guidelines on physiological adaptations, several sources to include USA Swimming, ASCA and Daniels use approximately 6 weeks cycle. That is very generalized as we all adapt differently in response to different type of stimulus.

    In light of that , I think there is a reason why OS is broken down into 8/6/6 mesocycles but coaches may be using a different source for their periodisation scheme.

    2. Recovery. I think it is critical in OS case you take recovery to the level beyond the attention you give to your workouts and elevate it's importance to beyond critical, doing so on microcycle basis. 

    When micorcycles are constructed to include 10-40% of total volume to be spent at FTP/threshold, you have to recover/rest just as hard to allow the body to absorb. You have done so successfully. Your results are obvious.

    EN manipulates intensity as the primary workload tool, so on the other end of that stick is "hard recovery", that is the balance of the equation. It also uses more moderate approach in  the rate of elevating the stress over 20 weeks, that in turn does not trigger the need for a full 7 day recovery cycles as with JF. It also does so with much less volume and no workouts that are in Z2 that take up the volume but give very little in return, to require additional recovery time.

    JF's scheme of progressive overload relies heavily on elevating the volume through the 3 week build up period. My 3rd  week would frequently climb to 20hrs of it too. So, when you stair step yourself aggressively on a 3 week build, you rack up the TSS, but that deep fatiguing type, mentally draining kind, that you are forced to take a 7 day recovery cycle or else. More importantly that stress racked up so rapidly, brings you so quickly to the edge. That is why I believe that it is the major difference between the two.

    Mental aspect of either scheme, I found this one here more tolerable as I gradually build mental toughness over the whole cycle, every session is an opportunity for that. Where, with JF, I would frequently come to the verge of mentally cracking, sometimes crack and than go for a week with bad memories, recovering and thinking how am I going to do this again.

    Anyway, I am sorry if I missed the point you were looking for, just my 2 cents.

  • Posted By Art Zaske on 13 Jan 2011 02:23 PM... I wonder how long (generally and with the above "everbody is different" caveats in place) it takes to make the physical adaptation to the higher intensity/shorter recovery paradigm? .. there is some chance that the 20 weeks of the OS is not allowing enough recovery time to fully consolidate fitness for those not yet adapted to the different paradigm (and wonder if I am one of those)....

     

    Art - A couple of thoughts. First, for me, I overlapped training models for about 6+ months once I entered EN, which was in July, mid season after finishing one IM with two more coming up. With no real forethought, I just gradually switched from one plan to the next, mixing elements of both, tipping more towards EN as the year went on. Then, as OS started the following Jan, I went all in. That model worked just fine for me (PR in my third IM of that year, another successful IM the following June). I was always frustrated anyway by the 3 (or 2, or 1) week on, 1 week off model. I would, as AT notes, get cooked by 10-14 days in, then be fully recovered after 2-4 days. It didn't seem to fit me. I like to workout every day, and throw in recovery WHENEVER it feels needed, usually by swimming or weight lifiting instead of doing a planned  hard  run or bike. Also, I usually throw in 1-2 weeks 1-2 times during the winter to take off and go skiing, so I build in recovery during the OS in that sense. I always worry I'll lose fitness, but, again, it hasn't hurt me yet. I love skiing too much to give it up, and its kinda hard to do at the END of the Tri season (Oct-Dec).

    Second, note that RnP advise when season planning to make sure you get sufficient recovery at the end of your OS, whether it's 12 or 16 or the full 20 weeks long (many ENers do a shorter than 20 week OS). Meaning ease off signficantly for a week or two before starting a specific HIM or IM build of 8-12 weeks. THOSE plans do have some rolling recovery in the sense that some weeks ARE harder than others, but none specifically defined as "recovery".

    If your fitness tests are improving during the OS, then your body is getting the benefit of the work, and the shorter recovery episodes, coupled with the shorter work sessions are doing the trick. If your tests don't improve (especialy from the first to the second) then either you are way fit to begin with, or you do need more rest. And the answer probably lies outside of training, in your real life - that's usually what tires people the most, what's more likely to get in the way of consolidating the gains. Poor nutrition, lack of sleep, and stress are the culprits, not the training model itself. Another reason why EN is more likely to work for more people - it allows real life to happen more easily around the training (or vice versa, some would say).

  • David: I was kind of thinking the same thing about test weeks

    Aleksander: that actually clears it up quite a bit for me. I had a similar expereince with JF's stuff... too easy in the beginning and then alot of "stacking" volume that had me feeling buried days 14-21 (and often really more mentally buried than physically). Makes sense that such an approach would require a longer recovery period than the "intensity toggle" EN approach

    Al: I too like to ski (and have been toying with the idea of a late Feb ski trip) so may be borrowing a page from your book there. Reading your post reminded me that Coach P said in one of his podcasts that we should seriously consider taking a week-end off and doing something else duringthe OS. The OS has been going very well for me, probably mostly due to the supporting factors you mentioned being in positive alignment thus far...

    I think my take-away here is to keep listening to my body (so to speak) and if I think I am grinding myself down, as opposed to working through a plateau, don't be afraid to dial it down for a work-out or three. Thank you very much for your thoughtful responses! I got quite a bit out of them, more than my brief responses herein might indicate...
  • You also have to remember that you can't follow the plans into a wall. I think it's more effective to take the extra rest day if you need it than to build in an entire week of noodling every four weeks when you might not actually need it. If I'm feeling off on a workout or in a lot more pain than is usually I will usually either shift the schedule around or skip a day to toss in an extra rest and recovery time period. This is the self-coaching thing that comes in...if you need a rest day, take it. You'll find all flavors in the haus, those that never take a rest day (looking at you mancona) and others that will take one or two if their body is telling them to. You have to find out what works for you while still allowing you to hit your training goals.
  • Jennifer, thanks for the thoughts... I hear ya and will definitely pay attention and take the day off as I need it... already worked too hard to risk dancing too close to putting myself in a hole...
  • No scheduled days off is one of those "WTF" things that drive new members nuts. I think it's actually a strength in the program -- you need to pick your own days; but truth be told that 9 times out of 10 life picks a day for us and makes adjusting the schedule simply part of how we train.
  • I did the JF 3 weeks build, one recovery for several years. When I joined a local training group there really wasn't the 3 on 1 off plan I was used to. I found out I could train hard back to back days and feel pretty good. I think sometimes we can handle mre than we think we can. Like Patrick said, life seems to throw a recovery day in here and there. And sometimes I start a workout and "it" just ain't there, so I'll take that as a sign I need a little break and hit it hard next time. I really like the EN way of training.
  • The biggest difference that I noticed is that recovery IS recovery, not another waste of time kind of workout. I have never understood the term active recovery. If you want to recover, there is nothing better than doing nothing (most of the time). So, i think the key to the EN adaptation is just hitting the days off as they are presented. Just my thoughts.
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