Zipp Wheels full time or for races only?

scott dinhofer

so as we work through the outseason, i am doing the advanced planning for getting the bike back on the road.

I am using my road bike, a specialized Tarmac SL3 Pro, with a new Powertap hub on a HED aluminum wheel for the outseason.

I have my P2 for the longer rides once we hit spring and i have to think about putting a power meter on it. The question is, do i put a quark on the bike allowing me to change the wheels for pre-race warm up and racing to the Zipps, or do i send the Zipp rear to wheelbuilder to have them put on a powertap and utilize the zipps all the time?

i am sure this has been discussed before, but wanted to hear fresh input.

 

kjanracing

My wife has a PT on a set of wheels built with Edge rims. She runs those all the time. I'll put on new tires for IMAZ, but otherwise she'll train and race those wheels.

Michael Byerts

I would use the Zipps for racing only for two reasons. First, if you train on a heavy, bomb proof wheel, then race on the aero wheel, you get an immediate speed improvement. The 1-2 mph bump I get on the flats helps my psychologically in a race. Second, I have heard that Zipp wheels are not the most sturdy wheels out there. If you hit a large pot hole, or (god forbid) get into an accident, you may be out $2,000 plus the powertap. Similarly, if you are running tubular tires on the Zipps, you are paying $50-$80 every time you get a flat instead of the $5 tube replacement.

kefali69

My philosophy on tri-related gear is use only what you can afford to lose.  This applies for both training and racing.  Accidents happen - even during races.  I like the portability of the PT hub option, but wheel selection becomes your limiting factor. 

I couldn't justify losing a set of Zipp rims, so last year I bought a Sram S60 set and had the guys at WB install a PT hub.  I have trained/raced with them for >2500 miles and no issues.  To race, I just change the tires and throw 'em back on.  They're bombproof AND fast.  This season, I will integrate a rear cover onto the Sram set for racing, but I also have a slightly more fragile backup pair of generic 85mm rims with a PT hub that can be swapped in or out.

Given your choices, I'd opt for the PT hub in the Zipps and train away.  The likelihood of destroying them in training are marginally higher than destroying them in a race.  I'll bet that the average athlete encounters more hazards in a single race than they do in a month of regular training.  Of course, that's purely anecdotal.

Jenn Edwards

Random side note: My HO insurance covers our bikes and wheels, less deductible. Funny this should come up as we just to great lengths to document all our bikes, wheels, accessories, etc. with the intention of buying a rider. When we submitted it our agent said we were told it was covered (yes, even if I simply crash my bike and yes, for full replacement value) but took the inventory to help should we need it down the road. He even checked with the underwriter and provided us a letter of confirmation. This obviously depends on type of coverage (I think we have an “umbrella”) but just a small factor to consider if $$$ is the only reason you’d consider not riding them, FWIW. And my N=1: I train and race on my 404s.

Carrie Chavez

I only have a set of Zipps 650's with a Power Tap( 48cm bike). So I train and race with them.

My road bike had a Power Tap in a bontrager race lite wheel. 700's. So I can't swap them out and I rarely train on my road bike.

Carrie

[Deleted User]

A couple of months ago I purchased a set of SRAM S80/S60 and had Wheelbuilder transfer my PT. I'm training and racing on one set of wheels and will switch tires as needed.

Like Jenn said, my HO Insurance covers all my bike stuff at full replacement value. It's worth it in my mind to have that security.

JeremyBehler

I tend to follow the 'train how you'll race' school and don't change up equipment nor nutrition.

I train and race on my 808s. No problems at all. I've only flatted once, and that was on a well used tire that would've needed replacement anyway. Zipps are pretty durable for carbon wheels based on my experience. I've had no problems with any that I've ridden regularly (404, 808, 1080, 900)

ouwelsh

I race on my 404's and only use my 1080 front and disk for racing unless it is windy.

As for HO insurance, I would highly recommend you read your policy as most HO-3's policies have limitations on bikes. Your bike would be considered under coverage C which is contents and that is named peril. So if the cause of the accident is not a named peril then it would not be covered. Perhaps Jen's policy is an HO-5 which lists contents under all risks with the exception of the exclusions. Granted the HO-5 is a broader policy but costs significantly more than the HO-3 policy. The lion's share of the policies for homeowners are HO-3.

jhbinsc

I use my Zipp's for racing and race rehearsals only but there are valid points to both approaches. I will say I use Zipp's Tangente tire at $110 per tubular and I have flatted on a race rehearsal and my wife flatted on a training ride after she didn't swap wheels (404's) AFTER a race the day before. Very pricey flats!
Oh, and I also cracked my flat disc (900) in a race which Zipp replaced at cost after some begging by my LBS but that was NOT cheap either even at wholsesale. And I have NO idea howI cracked my disc as I never loan it out and baby it. Maybe a pothole in race I didn't notice.
Zipps are sturdy but hardly indestructable. Ride 'em if you can afford 'em.
Good luck. Jeff

rfw6110

I train how I race.  I have been using a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLs with a PT for training and racing for almost 2 years with no problems.  I switch out tires and tubes at the start of my racing season.  Prior to that I used Zipp 404s for training and racing for years with no problems.  I think training on high-end wheels and bikes depends a lot on what kind of rider you are and what kind of roads you train on. 

Peter Greagg

FWIW, I have deep V velocity clinchers front and back with PT Hub (from Wheelbuilder) that I use for training and racing.  I train with Gatorskins and race with Conti Triathlon tyres.  These are on a 2006 P3, which I use for all rides except intervals.  I do all intervals on my Computrainer with my road bike.

I am extremely happy with this set up

ghernand

zipps are strong enough to train and race, especially the newer ones.  if they break, any other wheel would break as well.

your power tap hed wheel with a wheelbuilder disk cover works too.  i think strauss and a lot of other fast people go the normal (non-zipp) rim with wheelcover set up as well.  if your power to weight is high, then fast is fast.

one thing to consider however, is the new breed of wide rim wheels.  i got some Hed belgium wheels from wheelbuilder and they are awesome.  I am a quarq owner and my Hed rear disk has the same wide rim.  they ride much smoother than the narrower rims and we all know what smooth is...FAST!!

good luck!

GH

Al Truscott

I'm like Carrie - I ride my Zipp 650 404's everywhere - on the trainer, on the road, in the race. Six + years, pot holes, rain, bunny hops, gravel (a little here and there), etc and no issues.

I never thought about the insurance issue before, but my recent experience running smack into the rear of a pick up educated me. I'm usually very frugal with insurance, high deductible, don't have medical for me on car insurance, etc. But my home-owner's paid from dollar zero for the damage I did to the pick up with my bike (it was deemed my fault), and covered full expense of repair (minus deductible) no questions asked ($2300 for frame repairs and new fork). I bring this up because the Zipp front wheel, which smacked into the pick up at 25+mph along with my jaw suffered NO DAMAGE - NONE, attested to my my hyper vigilant bike repair guy, who insisted on replacing some titanium frame tubing because it had microscopic "ripples" I still can't see.

The frugal person would buy a bomb-proof "training wheel" with PT, and race with a wheel cover.

@ Scott, you are actually asking several questions: Quarq vs PT; Training wheel + Cover vs light weight deep dish wheel +/- cover; and what about that PT you already have in a wheel - why not just go with that and use a cover and not buy anything new? There's no one right answer.

Al Truscott

I'm like Carrie - I ride my Zipp 650 404's everywhere - on the trainer, on the road, in the race. Six + years, pot holes, rain, bunny hops, gravel (a little here and there), etc and no issues.

I never thought about the insurance issue before, but my recent experience running smack into the rear of a pick up educated me. I'm usually very frugal with insurance, high deductible, don't have medical for me on car insurance, etc. But my home-owner's paid from dollar zero for the damage I did to the pick up with my bike (it was deemed my fault), and covered full expense of repair (minus deductible) no questions asked ($2300 for frame repairs and new fork). I bring this up because the Zipp front wheel, which smacked into the pick up at 25+mph along with my jaw suffered NO DAMAGE - NONE, attested to my my hyper vigilant bike repair guy, who insisted on replacing some titanium frame tubing because it had microscopic "ripples" I still can't see.

The frugal person would buy a bomb-proof "training wheel" with PT, and race with a wheel cover.

@ Scott, you are actually asking several questions: Quarq vs PT; Training wheel + Cover vs light weight deep dish wheel +/- cover; and what about that PT you already have in a wheel - why not just go with that and use a cover and not buy anything new? There's no one right answer.

MattAaronson

I went with a quarq so I can use whatever wheels I want. It's not that I don't think my race wheels can't handle training -- I have some buddies that train all the time on their 808's and 404's -- but more that I like to swap in my race wheels and have that "special feel" (and sound!) of a race. I also use my race wheels for 2 bike sessions before each race where I ride the wheels hard to make sure the tires and tubes are seated properly, and I also take them for a spin sometimes when it's nice and windy, to get the psychological benefit of knowing I can handle the crosswinds with my deep wheels.

But overall, this is all mind games for me.

There is one other benefit to wheel flexibility, which is that I have a wheel dedicated for trainer use that has a trainer tire on it all the time. So I really never have to swap tires. That's legitimate utility with no psychological overlay!

scott dinhofer

@al - you are right about saving $ - fact is i already have a set of Zipp 606s, so it is a matter of do i have the flexibility of swapping wheels on my P2? or just riding all the time with the zipps.
@Matt - i have wheel flexibility, i use my road bike for the drainer!

Chris M.

In your situation, since you already have a PT on a different wheel, and I assume you want to race with power as well as train with it, I might lean towards equipping your P2 with a Quarq. 

That said, I take a different approach to the "Zipps all the time" question and feel that they can't afford not to be used all the time.  Zipp has a great crash replacement policy and if I'm going to spend that kind of money I want to get some use out of them.   I bought an 808 with PT and 404 for my wife and they are her full-time wheels and I will use them as race wheels if she's not in the race.  

scott dinhofer

consensus says use the toys all the time, so i will probably go with the PT added to the 808....

Norton

My Zipps have proven bomb-proof through thick and thin.