wheels for St. George.

robin sarner

For Ironman St. George.

I have Zipp 101s.  

For this race would it be worth the extra weight and money to get an aero front wheel and wheel cover for the back?

Seems to me my current wheels would be good for the hilly course.

thanks.

mgraffeo

 Robin, I've yet to see the IM course where you wouldn't benefit from having aero wheels.  That said, St. George is certainly one of the ones where people might argue the case.  The bike profile is here

Based on what I see, there are several analogies to the bike course at placid.  the big climb at St. George is just a little more elevation gain than the ride back in from Whiteface to town.  That said, I'm quite certain it's steeper at St. George.  However, you have two long, smokin' fast descents to navigate, as well, and aero gear will certainly be a big plus on that.

Overall, I can't say for sure re: St. George, but I've never met anyone who didn't think that you were better off at Placid with aero wheels, and the two courses seem similar enough (acknowledging that St. George is tougher) to draw the same conclusion.

Mike

Al Truscott

Robin - You are a very strong biker, and can add to that advantage with a disc cover on the rear wheel. @ $129 from Wheelbuilder.com, it weighs less than a true disc wheel, and can help you greatly on those long downhills. Remember, when you qualify for Kona, you won't be able to use a disc wheel there, so getting the cover with either your current wheel or a deep dish aero rear wheel is the most cost effective. Buying a lightish front deeper dish wheel, like a Zipp 404 might be a good idea  for this course, I think.

But the biggest things that're going to help you, given your size, are an aero helmet, and a superb fit with the front end (your head) tucked as low as you can get it and still see. And then using your size to your advantage on the downhils, getting that gravity assist that guys like me don't get so much. Practicing that, say, on the lower slopes of the Hurricane Ridge road in April would be a good way to spend a day or two, say from the 2,500 foot level down to Port Angeles - snow should not be an issue there then.

Tom Glynn

The big issue last year in St. George was the wind. It was incredibly windy almost all week, but ended up a little better on race day. I was pretty nervous about riding with a rear disk cover (had a Zipp 404 up front). Probably half the pros didn't have discs/covers on the rear. I ended up using the covers without a problem.

robin sarner

Mike and Al and Tom,

Thanks much for the info and encouragement.

I'll probably get the wheel cover for the rear.          I do have an aero helmet now though haven't road tested it.

I'll change the front if I find a good used deal.   HED H3.   Etc.     

One reason I went to the Zipp 101s is I hate the insecurity of having to flix flats on deep dish wheels.      There are often problems with the valve extenders (even with Tufo or Topeak ones), wasted co2 cannisters, etc.      With the Zipp 101s, I am somewhat aero and can change a flat very fast.

How many minutes over an Ironman would a deep disk front wheel give?

thanks all.

delesh

If you go HED H3 you won't need a valve extender. It has a cutout and is best used with normal length valves.
The time saved will of course be dependent on the wheels and the conditions but I have seen numbers around 6-10 minutes saved over an iron distance race when going to aero wheels over standard box rimmed. May be more or less.
Remember you can get some savings from good tires and latex tubes as well.

mancona

I agree with others and the aero cover is a no brainer...that, a good fit and aero helmet are the biggest bang for your buck.

If you still want to buy more speed, the things to keep in mind are handling and diminishing.

Gernerally the deeper the wheel, the faster, the more expensive, and the harder to handle in the wind. I presonally feel the Zipp 404 is the gold standard front wheel as it gives a great balance of increased aerodymanics in all situations and isn't too difficult to handle. Sure a 808, 1080, HED3, etc are faster, but on a windy day they could be an issue for smaller riders.


Keep in mind the 101s are great wheels to start with, I have a set and love them.

To help put things in perspective, according to Zipp's testing ...

The 101s already save you 42 seconds per 40k over a standard rim (so a little more then 4 times that for an IM).

There are 3 versions of the 404 available (alloy clincher, tubie, carbon clincher) and the average savings is right around 71 seconds per 40k.

Therefore you MAY be able to save about 30 seconds per 40k or just over 2 minutes over an ironman.

Something like a 808 or HED3 is would probaby more like 2:40 minutes over an ironman.

It's up to you to decide if the additional cost and potential handling concerns are worth it for 2 to 3 minutes. In my experince the 101s are just as easy to handle as a normal wheel in the wind, a 404 is no big deal but big gusts are noticable, on an 808 you feel the wind and will get pushed around. I still use an 808 front for everything but Kona though and I race at 135ish.

BTW...renting a 404 front for the race may be the cheapest approach and then just use you 101s for all of your b and c races.

Carrie Chavez

The wind Tom is referring to is INSANE wind. The day before the race it was hard to walk in it, the day after the race you got blown around trying to walk or stand. I personally have never experienced wind like that: including Kona and IMAZ 07. Just saying this as you will want the option of not using the disc at the last minute. We lucked out as it was only wind that one could tolerate on race day.

Best time savings on this course in my opinion is being able to stay aero. I was glued to my aero bars. Folks around me were on the hoods due to wind and hills. Need to practice ninja like aero skills and shifting frequently to not burn matches.

I rode on 404's. They were great.

Carrie

robin sarner

thanks all for the great info.

Robin

Tom Glynn

 My favorite pic of St. George from last year, two days before the race.

jmoss70

I would plan on wind of some type heading back into St. George from Veyo on both loops but especially on Loop #2.  I rode the course 4X before race day and every time (even when there appeared to be no wind in the city) there was wind of some sort.  All 4X I rode it the wind back into town was a head wind - so much fun.  On race day the wind was from the west and northwest, making it a nifty little cross wind to deal with.  I'm 6' and 160 lbs and rode a set of 808s on my bike.  I do not consider myself a great bike handler (no MTB or Cross background) and it was challenging for me to anticipate the gusts and stay upright.  Having said that, I never felt a gust that would have blown me off my bike.  Just a little white knuckle.  I found that watching the back wheel of riders in front of me gave me a clue as to when a gust was coming - I'd see their wheels twitch and I could brace myself.  

As other have indicated, there was some type of divine intervention on behalf of Ironman on race day as the wind really wasn't that bad.  The days surrounding it were horrible. 

robin sarner

I guess if crazy windy, I'll lose the wheel covers