first outdoor ride with power...WTH?!
Random thoughts here regarding how wrong I've been...
First time on my usual 50 miler today. Rolling hills, pretty windy. 45-50 degrees. FTP 205 tested around 3 weeks ago when I first got the Quarq/Joule setup.
- I would have bet the ranch that I had this route under control with HR/RPE over the last 5 years. I NOW know another reason why I have plateaued. I was VERY wrong about my correlation to effort and actual watts. Nothing but matches getting burned over every hill. Rollers are tough to gauge, so I hear. 50w-185w-376w-268w-423w- and so on, climbing for 3-8 (ish) minutes and crest and a couple of minutes of 10w and hammering the descents to get 110w.
- After looking at WKO+, its embarrassing how ugly the graph is. I can't 'create a range' anywhere, despite efforting 4x 2.5' z5. It's that erratic and uncontrolled. Hills that I would have thought would be reading 105-110% FTP were really going 150-200%. If EN climbing is in the range of 105%, then I'd be shooting for, give or take, 220-225w. Yet, steadily climbing in reality anywhere from 290-500. I'm not saying my PM is in need of calibration. I think it's my head/lungs/legs that are in need of quality control!
- About 2.5 hrs of riding, of what I thought was a less aggressive ride than usual. BUT, the TSS came thru at 275, IF of 1.05, VI of 1.2, and Pnorm of 218.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, I may have plateaued cuz I ALWAYS rode these hills with one hard pace in mind, despite choosing to believe it was easy and appropriate. Too high of TSS week in and week out, and not enough recovery time means crappy S/B/R for days to follow, [I must have been ( or still am ) in denial], providing good general fitness but not progressing in the ways I'm looking for.
I WAS going to do the bikeFTP test tomorrow evening. Might still. If legs are sore, will hold off til Mon or Tues.
This has been just a small peek into why I fail at self coaching, and why I'm happy to be in da Haus. Wow, I gotta a lot to learn.
Also, why is the Joule not giving me an accurate reading on speed? CycleOps Speed/Cad sensor set to spd. Joule is paired. Correct spd/cad sensor is activated. But, my spd readings were way off. I know the pace only cuz I know the course and the time ridden. What's up with the speed sensor?
Comments
That said, unless you're paying really close attention to your exertion level on the hills, I think the high peaks you're seeing are 'normal'.
Also remember that FTP indoors (if that's how you tested it) can be very different from outdoors. Mine is generally 10% higher outdoors.
Agree with Bob and George that the FTP you have been using in training is likely too low. I would be interested to know what your highest 60 min NP was and if you think you could reproduce that during a test. If you felt that your perceived effort wasn't commensurate to wattage readings of the ride, I would make sure that your hub is calibrated. Or you may be getting fitter!
@ George, Bob, & Christian - I agree with your thoughts, that's why I'm scratching my head over this. Do I lack motivation in the basement on the trainer? I've heard of the 10% delta (outside/inside), maybe I have a bigger delta? Maybe I just didn't test well. Had the PM for only a week before I tested in the middle of the vO2 block. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that my scheduled test this week will THAT big of a difference. I mean, it is in the basement and on the trainer after all. I'm new to WKO+, also. So, I'll dig around for this 60minPower info and see how it ranks.
@Bill- good thought on the circumference. I didn't even check that. I just went with what they had plugged in, 2096 (I think? I'm pre-coffee without the joule in front of me right now). Is there a link that will provided circumference info for wheels, rather than doing the roll test in the den?
@ Al - This was the biggest perspective slap that I've had since joining EN in Oct. This was the day that I really absorbed the fact of how OFF I've been doing this. I hear your points and I will be making the necessary adjustments. I can't imagine how 'backwards' I'm going to be pedalling up those hills. I'm very stubborn with maintaining a hi-cadence and minimal spd drop. I have to assume that it's easier to ride/train correctly when riding solo or with someone who understands the principle, rather than the usual crew spinning up the hills with that 'I'm hurting but let me look like I'm not hurting' look. I can buy into this and stick with it. Here to learn, and to start getting better results, reaching for the next level up from where I am currently.
Thx all.
I've heard you guys say this over and over. I didn't realize what a leap o' faith this was gonna be until now. I'm gonna trust you guys. And after a year or two, I hope to have similar experiences that y'all speak of.
but I was under the impression that raising our FTP was achieved more efficiently by riding in that 85% - 100% FTP zone, for longer periods like 15-20 minutes.
Looks to me like yesterday's ride was more of a workout the vO2 to anaerobic power zones, very high power output (for me) for shorter periods of time like 3-8 minutes on the hills, meaning I probably didn't spend enough time in the right zone to get increased FTP results. Not to say that there wasn't benefit from yesterday. It's the idea of training with specificity in mind.
I went out, without a real good plan, rode pretty much like usual, got a good workout in, but was not an efficient workout at all. It was fun, that is still important, of course. But, I learned that ride, ridden that way, is a pretty high TSS that requires some consideration to recovery, and I've never appreciated that before. Maybe next time, I ride it a little differently and we'll see what happens, or how I feel after, or how the following workouts feel, etc. I'm just a study of n=1, but basing that study on all of the n's that are in da' Haus.
I know, I'm probably overthinking all of this. It's what I do...
Chris, as you probably know, if your FTP is set wrong to the low side, your TSS numbers will be wrong to the high side.
@Chris - no one method works best for all us very unique peeps. My n=1 experiment works very well with me. In the OS, I ride outdoors as hard as I can; and I've had success then bringing those new recruited muscle fibers into the garage on the trainer and nailing the EN interval sessions quite well and then some. You are not over thinking at all. Experiment and discover what works for you -- your n=1. I'm in Y3 of EN and am now comfortable tweaking, changing things up off EN script because I went down your path previously on what provided me the best fitness adaptation. Do what you are doing, what you want to do, and what best fits your n=1. My comments were not meant to change your course of action, rather just provide a perspective. Keep up the good work.
BTW, I just did the week 14 FTP test, less than 24 hours after that ride, and had minimal improvements. Crap.
Chris, let's put things into proper perspective. There's no way you're going to go for a 2.5hr ride and focus primarily on VO2 power. Your numbers are just all off because your FTP is set way too low. You probably sat mostly around L3 which is basically where you want to be for that ride.
Remember, don't get too caught up into hitting a specific zone/level during a ride like that. Zones/levels are simply arbitrary boundaries and you experience a wide range of adaptations at a wide range of intensities. Trust me, you spent plenty of time in the right zone/level to build enough training stress to help induce the adaptations you're seeking. When you're on the trainer doing focused FTP and VO2Max intervals then that's the time to target those specific and respective ranges more appropriately. Those longer rides are there to build training stress and ideally overload the muscles in a progressive manner.
My notes:
Short story...welcome to riding outside with power
. The good news is that if you have been riding incorrectly (if you were to race like this...yeah, that would be bad) you now have a tool that will show it to you and you can fix it.
Speed = your wheel size is wrong.
Because, work is work. Pushing watts in that Always Be Pushing mode. Hitting these climbs relentlessly but able to crest and keep pushing over the tops and through the flats, so, might mean backing off a touch on the climbs. After a few rides, WKO+ should be able to tell me where that magic spot is. Funny thing is, I've been mooching the free EN stuff for a few years and I've learned how to ride this way coming into here. I don't tend to coast over the top and rest on the flat, that's when I like to keep the gas on. I'm sure its not unusual that I may be a little more cooked at the top of a climb these days as opposed to April or so.
And, @ Rich, I already recognize that this IS the way I've been riding in races lately. BAD
And, I'll look into these angles like the Peak 60 power to see if anything jumps out at me. still getting familiar with how to get the most out of WKO+.
Thanks for the help.
Yes, right now I think you should be riding with the mindset of "go that way, as fast as I can, all the time"....as long as that doesn't impact downstream sessions. But while you're doing that, also observe any disconnects between how you think you ride and how you actually are riding. You'll find that you're easy is likely VERY easy, and your "not so hard" can be "stoopid hard." Also observe how your friends are riding vs you. Watch how they spend a lot of watts in a manner that doesn't gain them any speed, just extra effort. Use this as a tool to help you gain confidence in "our" way of riding. "Timmy is my weight and he's pulling away from me on this hill as I push 350w = Timmy is pushing 420w easy = no friggin' way he's that strong. I'll continue to sit on my watts and let him go away cuz I know he's going to come back to me. See, he's at the crest and I can see him come off the gas. I'll stay on my watts and pass him very quickly on the downhill and he's back to playing catchup. He didn't spend his watts wisely."
IOW, use your training partners to provide you with reference points for how NOT to ride and the observed costs of riding the stoopid way.
thanks
.as long as that doesn't impact downstream sessions.
Honestly, it's hard to have this conversation with any sense of accuracy when we use subjective terminology. Climbing at 85% isn't shunning away as long as you're maintaining appropriate power on the descents (eg, ~60%) and flats (eg 75+%). However, things could get a little whacked when you decide to climb well over 100% yet maintain those same numbers above on the descents and flats. So, for example, what does it really mean when you say, "...being aggressive on the rollers"? And I'm not sure Wko+ is going to give you the magic you're looking for. Telling your typical male to do a lot of ABP often results in a different outcome than when you tell the same thing to your typical female. Honestly, the female will likely do a better job of getting the intensity right so it doesn't impact future workouts.
I just had a buddy get done with surgery. He had an external and internal oblique tear along with a rectus ab tear. How do you think he got those? Ok. It was most likely from running but hopefully you get the point. PMs are great but they don't stop you from riding into a brick wall. It's your head that does that.
Thanks, Chris