My "House" is Inside Out: Ceiling vs Roof
So I just tested for Week 14 and saw some positive gains on both the bike (10 watts up, new PB) and run (25 seconds faster, almost a PB). I am stoked, especially considering that my weight still isn't super great yet.
So I look at the plan and see the 2.5s this weekend at 120% FTP, and I know that I could barely do the original 2.5s (I am doing Boston Marathon hack, fatigue is relatively high). Now that my 120% will be about 400w am positive it won't work.
So my ceiling continues to go higher without the roof...despite the fact that my ratio is about 1.13.
I will break the 2.5s down to 1 or 1.5 intervals, but am curious to hear what you all think...how low can my ratio go? I'd like to get to 350-360 FTP this year (which would be me at 4.2 W/kg). I have raced at 3.7 in the past, going 5:15 in Kona so am hoping this boost will really set me up for a great Placid. 
Thoughts? Thanks!!!
Comments
But I'm kinda with you in the sense that I am just holding on at 115% for the Vo2 sets. But I didn't bump my FTP in the vo2 block, so I don't have your problem.
Having said that, I did 3x10 yesterday and felt fantastic doing it. I held 98% or so and felt like I could have done a 4th set. I think once the fatigue from the vo2 is gone I may actually bump up a notch. we'll see.
As far as Saturdays go...I may very well try to do them as 1:00 or 1:30 intervals. I know I can hold the higher powers for that...it was always that last 30-45s that just killed my power on the Vo2 stuff.
But I was told you really need 2min for it to be a real vo2 set. is that correct? If so, maybe I'll do 2 minute sets instead of 2:30.
My best ratio ever is 1.18 after the power hack, but I am pretty much always below 1.15 otherwise and I have been around 1.10 before as well. I've never tested in the middle of the season but I bet I'm even lower then because of all the FTP work we do.
I just look at the 120% stuff as my hardest workouts of the year, but also the most effictive. I get myself mentally fired up for them and find that for a few weeks I can get through them. After that I have to just gut it out and do the best I can. It's not pretty but I get them done.
As far as thoughts... if are already struggling with 120% of the old FTP, I would not try to do 120% of the new FTP while training for the marathon. Sounds like a good way to screw up your A-race of the year by burning too many matches too eary. If it is only a few more more VO2 workouts, I would just target 115% instead. If you are going to be doning a number of VO2 workouts still, I would actually do the 5'/20' test, and then base the intervals off of your actual 5' result. But as you know I like to test (probably way too much).
My first thoughts were to stay at the old level for the 120%. On second thought my head would want to know – could I. So maybe a compromise is for the 6 X2.5 on Saturday do the first 2 repeats at the new higher wattage level. If they become an issue the cut the time to 2 min. Target the remaining 4 repeats at the old wattage level. This will give you some feedback as what to the body can do with the next set of X by 2.5’s
How do you come up with the 1.13 number? Is that the highest number you can sustain for 2.5 minutes dividied by your FTP?
In the OS I actually test this from time to time. During the season when I know I have been outside and both riding hard short efforts and also longer ftp efforts, I estimate this by using WKO to find my peak 5' and peak 20' power.
Patrick -
1: 10w? Good job.
2. I can't comment on the ratio part of your question.
3. In this thread, 2nd post, you talk about your fitness resembling a ranch house. This was a thread you posted *last year,* so with similar observations this year, we're starting to see a data set.
4. I think trying to game your ratio, in pursuit of The Lowest Ratio Ever Achieved, against a backdrop of a high-stake race in the very near future and a Full IM in the longer term, is crusin' for a brusin.' There's some near-term stuff coming, so I would turn my attention to FTP or 85-90%, all the time. Embrace the Ranch House. Love the Ranch House. Go the Full Freakin' Frank Lloyd Wright.
5. I'd say no more structured v02. for the same short term / long term reasons, and against your particular skills, I would instead be putting in FTP time, or group rides as a substitute for the long / v02 ride, letting the surges and peaks account for the higher end work.
6. Cautionary Tale. Here's my full disclosure: I've been workin' the same v02 stuff in a ranch house, and I'm now enjoying a lifetime best burnout. Unable to work today, can't concentrate, diet gone to crap, crying during biggest loser, sleep 16h and still tired, burnout. I'm not too bad with that because my race is a long ways out, but you have some stuff that is important in the ST, and can't afford a crater like this.
Anyhow, mate ... you've just got a lifetime high FTP. While concurrently training for a Marathon. And you ain't 26 no more. THIS IS HUGE.
Others: thoughts about the differing mixes of fast twitch / slow twitch makeup for general pop versus ranch-housers? Given this mix is immutable, is there a place in training where those with shallow attics ought to say "enough?" (or is this self-defeating?) iow, play to your strengths, or play to your weaknesses?
EDIT:
Thanks to this thread I now have Parliment Funkadelic's "Tear the Roof Off (the motha')" playing in my head on an infinite loop. So I'm off to stab my brain with a Q-Tip.
The ceiling is your FTP
The roof is your VO2max power
The space in between is your attic. The theory is that if ther is not enough room in the attic you cannot get your ceiling (FTP) any higher without first raising the roof (VO2max).
This is why the OS plans have a FTP focused phase, then VO2max, then FTP again. As long course triathletes we care more about FTP, but if VO2max becomes a limiter we need to work on it. As far as how big the attic should be. I think of it as if you 5' to 20' ratio is under 1.22 you may benefit form VO2work, if it is over 1.22 generally you have enough attic and can continue doing threshold work.
I would bet that 95% of people should just stick with the OS as it has a good balance of FTP to VO2, but for some it makes sense to start looking into this more after a few years of EN OS work (or similar training).
Let's see... I read "Boston Marathon hack" and "set me up for a great Placid." That pretty much tells me where your priorities are (and should be).
Rip it up big boy. You're an IM dude, you're not training for a marathon. ;-)
@Matt, thanks for the input re the season….I needed that perspective!
@Eric, I hear you on the fatigue…I think you _will_ see that boost when it's all said and done!
@Matt, good call on gauging the true difficulty of the work…I will see what I can do!
@Chris, yes, I took my highest sustained VO2 number and divided it by my current FTP.
@Dave, thanks for the perspective…I needed that kick in the nutz.
Not to hijack this thread...but that 1.2 V02max/FTP ratio is from a Veronique Billat paper, right? I sorta remember you and Rich talking about it the Boston Power Clinic back in Dec 2008. I'm trying to find that paper and have looked through all 71 articles that Billat has authored (with the help of the hospital librarian)---can't quite figure out which one it is. Do you remember?
Kitima, Linda P might be able to point you to the paper; I think she cited this a few years ago in a 30/30 post.
Kitma, if Linda doesn't have it, I bet that Hayes can dig it up as well.
sorry to have missed this thread last week. Just two more cents on the whole thing.
1) estimating where your VO2peak power is as a function of your FTP is generally pretty good, but not perfect. We know that, as people approach their potential, some have an FTP (as a percentage of VO2max) higher than others. So, 120% may not be the right prescription for you.
2) any number above about 110% is clearly in the 'VO2-type adaptations' category. If you're struggling with 120%, knock it down to 112-115%, and try to hold durations, or knock them down, too. Equal rest-to-effort intervals are going to stimulate those 'roof-raising' adaptations. As Chris W has reminded me many times, adaptations occur on a spectrum, not at a single point.
3) You may be genetically a ranch, and are probably better off for it at the power levels your operating at right now. But there's definitely continued value to working at VO2 levels. Take a look at Table 2 here for a decent overview of the additional benefits
http://www.peaksware.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels,-by-andrew-coggan.aspx
Good luck!