Ceiling and Roof in running
We use the ceiling/roof metaphor in biking, but I see no reason the same general idea doesn't also apply to running.
I'm in NOS and saw my bigger gains in the bike up to week 8. At week 14 (after VO2), I had a measurable, but smaller FTP gain...up 5 W to a new PR.
On the run, I saw big gains from the VO2 phase. 19:57, 19:40, 19:15 for the week 1, 8, 14 tests, respectively. Previous PR was 19:33, and I have done very little VO2 running ever. Just some half-miles in various training plans over the years. So I attribute a lot of it to that. On the other hand, I dropped a few pounds, so it may just be being a little lighter...if 2 sec/mile per pound is legit, maybe I lose 18 sec just from losing 3 pounds...
I notice that the remainder of the OS doesn't have any more VO2 running in it, while there are more-or-less weekly VO2 bikes.
So (a) why is that?, and (b) For those of us who responded well to the VO2 intervals running, should we just stick with the kool-aid or hack one of those threshold runs to a VO2 run?
Comments
Good questions. For me, I personally found greater gains during the threshold portion of the run than the VO2 phase.
My 5K test remained essentially the same after week 14 test as the week 8 test (raised VDOT by almost 2 pts on that one though!). As I reenter the threshold weeks (I am in week 16 of OS currently), I am finding that my RPE at the stated threshold has gotten easier, which is of course a good thing and hopefully indicates some VDOT gains at the end of season OS test.
As to hacking in some VO2 runs at the end of the OS, my end of OS test is going to be a 5-K (right near my house, big, fun race), so I have been debating throwing some VO2 in there close to the end of the OS, since I am not doing a 10-K or Half Marathon...would like to hear input as to how that might be done...
@William, 5k run race is a VO2max intensity level race effort. So, VO2 work in running directly affects your 5K race ability development. It is not LT effort. LT intensity level is at 15k races.
Bike FTP work directly affects our 2x20min test as it closely trains that ability. And our test more closely correlates to FTP rather than VO2 max.
It is just a measuring metric that we are using at EN that will yield such a result and it is very logical what you got.
In running, if we wanted to test LT pace, it would more likely be 10k for slower runners and 15k-half marathon for faster runners to use for testing VDOT where LT ability dominates. We use 5k instead.
Opposite to that, to truly test your VO2max gain on the bike, likely 5min interval would have been used and you would have seen more measurable gains there, after a bike VO2max focus.
With VO2max focus on the bike and the way we test, we just create more "attic space" for further FTP work. I suspect that after your next 6 weeks of FTP focus, you may see further measurable gains in FTP on the bike.
I absolutely agree with the ceiling/roof in running as well. I am definitely in the same camp on the run as the bike and have very little attic. Last year I chose to continue doing some VO2 workouts by doing track workouts with a local club in the early spring as I knew my roof was too low. Once a week I would do 1600s, 1200s, 800s, or 400s with them so it wasn't always VO2 max but at least 50% to 75% of the time it was. The result was my body responded well and within about 2 months I had a new record vdot and new PRs at all running distances. Things were going well, so I did this for maybe 12 weeks total. I did not get injured or burnt out however I started to fade later in the season and I don't believe I was able to perform to my potential in any race after June. I'll never know if it was the extra track workouts that did it, something else, or a combination, but my gut feeling is that I have been over doing it in the later spring early summer. My point - the VO2 max stuff can be dangerous and sneak up on you so proceed with caution.
Amen... Running is a unique beast. It's all about the impact forces which are an order of magnitude greater. It should be BY FAR your most conservative discipline, imho.
By definition, we are never working out at a true VO2max effort in these training plans. VO2max is a level of effort that represents somewhere near your 5-6min peak effort. The fact that we never go above a 5k effort has to do with the above posts regarding orthopedic stresses. Just very hard to handle.
As far as doing 5k-pace work after the VO2 block, I'd offer that I think there's some value in it. Much like Matt's experience from last year, it can help quite a bit. But it's tough to manage that in a weekly schedule when you're also doing other hard work around it. So, it's up to you to figure out if and how you'd want to do it. As far as the OS schedule, it would be tough to sandwich that on Wednesday between the Tuesday and Thursday bikes, leaving Sunday as the option. Could be done (especially with the rest day on Monday), but need to manage Saturday pretty carefully.
Overall, there are definitely folks out there who advocate for one session per week per discipline of VO2 work, all year long. Personally, I think that there might be something to that. But I haven't spent enough time thinking about how to weave that into a basic week and/or block of training to have a decent recommendation.
My totally uneducated guess is yes to your question, particularly if you have a long history in one sport vs the other, or in one of them you tended to go short and fast, vs. long and slow in the other. But I have no evidence for that.
You had a massive improvement in the run test after 8 weeks. 1:24 is just shy of 30s/mi faster, which is a whole different league of running. It doesn't surprise me at all that there wasn't another gain just 4 weeks later. If you keep doing the work as prescribed, I wouldn't be surprised to see another improvement, but it may not be within 2-4 weeks.
Your biking seems to be improving steadily, so it's not as much of a surprise to be able to improve test over test.
For sure, bodies respond differently to different training levels, but not to the point where individuals would be able to say "VO2 work just doesn't help my run improve" or things like that.
It's important to acknowledge the mechanics and dynamics of running versus cycling. Running (more generally human locomotion) encompasses a broad range of speeds and forms. Over the course of a run, you're utilizing several different sets of muscles in order to accommodate variable effort and terrain. Training a particular zone (e.g. Z4) will result in specific gains, but those gains do not necessarily filter down to all modes of running (say Z3 or Z5) since muscle recruitment is so broad.
Cycling utilizes a reduced range of muscles within a highly-restricted range of motion. Due to the overlap of muscle utilization, your Z5 efforts have some applicability to Z4/Z3/etc. conditioning. While the bulk of your gains will favor the targeted level of effort, not all muscles will be supporting that particular level of effort. For a Z5 interval, think of some muscle fibers as being peripheral, playing a supporting role, and only undergoing a Z4/Z3 level of exertion. I'm by no means an expert on exercise/human physiology, but this is my elementary understanding of system dynamics as it relates to human propulsion.
Also, an important clarification. There are a finite set of muscles that cross the hip and knee. There are no "different sets of muscles" being used when an activity changes slightly. The neuromuscular activation patterns change, and the relative role of the supportive muscles changes. But all of the muscles are being used.