TSS/TSB/ATL/CTL

Carl

Hey team I have a few questions that someone hopefully can answer for me or steer me in the right direction.  I am really prone to ITB and knock on wood I have felt twitches all OS but no flare ups.  Listening to the body more, YOGA, and foam rolling after every workout. 

My questions are:

1.  Since last weak 2/15/11 to today I have cumulated 477.5 TSS points

2. TSB on 2/13=32 and today =20

3. ATL- 2/13=42.7, 2/15=46.4, 2/17=57.6, 2/20=51.2 and today = 52.5

4. CTL today is at 40

Besides listening to my body I really want to learn to read and truly understand these numbers. 

Yes I feel tired and sore today but nothing out of the unusual as I have all season after a great workout.

 Looking at the above numbers is there anything I should be aware of or anything I should be doing?

Thanks

Matt Samojeden

Carl,

I remember about mid stride on the November OS, this question came up. I can’t find the tread at the moment but what stuck in my head was coach Rich saying that during the OS, TSS/TSB/ATL/CTL are not good stable measure to indicate fatigue to the body. The rational was that the high intensity short durations of the typical OS training rides don’t rack up the Big TSS numbers that longer time rides as ~85 % do.  BUT the load to the body is there!!!!



Here is one thread that talks about being on the edge. http://members.endurancenation.us/Community/Forums/tabid/101/aft/1153/Default.aspx#18237



Matt

morpheus

@ Carl - thanks for bringing this up. I've been wondering the same thing. I trust that over a year, two years, 5 years, this will make more sense to me. I keep going back to the Training And Racing With A Power Meter book. I see the big picture, but these are details that I'd like to have a better grasp of.

@ Matt - thanks for the link, that helps some, too.

Chris

Christian Rabbat

Here's a wiki link outlining why these metrics are not great for outseason type work.

http://members.endurancenation.us/R...+in+the+OS

chris

Michael Byerts

Here's a link to the explanation from Hunter Allen. Basically, TSS, ATL and CTL are all measures of the training stress you apply, combining how much time you spent training, how hard you were going and how frequently you train. TSB (training stress balance) is supposed to approximate your racing form, thus it should go up to a large positive number in the days before you "A" race.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/what-is-the-performance-management-chart.aspx
But as Matt points out, the numbers have drawbacks because they cound all training stress points equal, and the wiki article mentioned above explains why they tend to be misleading.

Matt Samojeden

@ Christian - Thanks for finding the Wiki link. Mike's writeup does a good job explaining the shoort comings of the measures in the OS.

mgraffeo

Carl, if you can get through the post that Michael linked, and then follow the wiki link, you're way ahead of most people in understanding these concepts. The most important thing to get out of all of it is that it is a model, and there are times when it is really useful, other times not so much. IMO, in the OS, those numbers don't mean very much.

William Jenks

There's a really important insight that people miss in its simplicity:

TSB = ATL-CTL. And that's it.
(A=Acute, C=Chronic. Default time constants are 7 and 42 days, respectively)

TSB is nothing magic. Ever.

All TSB measures is how much work you've been doing for the last week or so vs how much work you've been doing for the ~6 weeks prior. Naturally, if your training has been ramping up, it's therefore negative, and if you're tapering (or have taken some time off in the last few days), it'll be positive.

Honestly, Carl, the +20 TSB as of today just means you had a (relatively) easy week last week.