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What kind/size tires for Tubulars do you use?

John WithrowJohn Withrow
in General Training Discussions

I have tubular Zipp 404's.  I'm gonna put new tires on for this season.  Since my Powertap is in my Zipp, I train and race on the rear wheel year-round, and I usually just train with an old Mavic clincher wheel on the front.

What kind of tires should I get?  I really have no opinion, so I'd like to know what you all like.  I'll be doing 2 HIM's then IMLou this year. I'd rather err on the side of speed than comfort if I have to make that tradeoff, but reliability and durability is a must.  I'm also not necessarily looking for "value", I just want to find the right tire, but I'm not a brand snob either so any brand is fine.  

Any opinions on tire size?  I've only ever ridden 700-23c, but that was actually by default and not because I made the active choice to use that size. If it makes any difference, I weigh ~200 lbs and I love to bomb downhills but suffer climbing up them...

Also, do you all put a little bit of that sealing liquid in your tubulars before you mount them?  If so, what kind?  Is there any difference on what kind of stems I use (provided they're long enough)?

Comments

  • tgarsontgarson

    John, my personal preference for racing tubulars at the moment is the Vittoria Corsa Evo CX II (320 TPI). I got them last time from PBK (http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y0031) and I ride a 21mm up front and a 23mm rear, although I wouldn't be adverse to riding a 23mm front either.



    When it comes to why I ride this tire, it's a little more complicated. The first question when it comes to tire and tube choice, or both in one when it comes to tubulars, is whether you are looking for tires that are for training, all around use, or sctrictly for racing.



    If you are racing, you want the fastest tire setup available, but if these are your everyday wheels then you have to take the decreased puncture resistance of most of the racing tubulars into consideration. When you are looking for a fast tire, you are looking for low Crr and if you are to believe the public data, which admittedly I do (within reason), there is a tremendous difference in the Rolling Resistance (Crr) between 'fast' tires and slow ones. There is also typically a perceived inverse ratio between low Crr and puncture resistance, hence the training vs racing criteria. Crr data can be found here: http://biketechreview.com/tires/rolling-resistance/475-roller-data (See Rev9)



    The takeaway is you want to select a high TPI latex tubular, the ideal tire width tends to vary depending on it's intended purpose and the wheel it is paired with. I personally feel that the decrease in cornering ability on the thin 19 or 20mm typically outweighs any aero benefits, but even so some tire widths simple pair better with certain rims. I have HED Stinger's with C2 rim wells which were designed to accomodate a wider tire. I would suspect that these, along with the new Firecrest Zipps, actually are more aero with a 23mm tire, or perhaps just as aero with increased cornering. At your size, I'd also think that a 23mm tire would provide a more comfortable overall ride. Another small feature I like is removable valve cores so you can place a proper valve extension without dealing with annoying problematic screw-on valve extenders.



    Last two considerations, gluing method matters! Studies have also shown that taping your tires results in a tangible increase of Crr (more is bad), and that individual glue brands, methods and techniques also contribute to the overall Crr of your setup. Lastly, *don't* use any sealing liquid in your tires if you are looking for the fastest possible setup because you guess it, tire sealant also tangibly increases rolling resistance.





     

  • JeremyBehlerJeremyBehler
    I'm in the same boat...I posed this question a month or so ago and got some good perspective.

    http://members.endurancenation.us/Community/Forums/tabid/101/aft/5159/Default.aspx
  • Matt SamojedenMatt Samojeden
    John, my race wheels are zipp 808’s tubular. For tires I run the Zipp Tangente tires. I run the 21c width. I have been happy with them. They have 4 IMs and one ½ IM on them and no issues. They also make a 23c width. With you training on them the 23c width will give you a better ride and have a bit more cross section to survive an major pot hole collision. Also with you being a good sized guy, that would have me also lean to the 23c.

    For extenders I’m not sure what brand I have in there. I recommend you put the Teflon tape on the joint before you add the extension. I don’t run any sealant in the tire. If you are not worried about the added rotational weight, that may be a good safe guard for small punctures.
  • grosso27grosso27

    @ John. 

    Looks like Trevor provided a good thorough answer.  I'll add my setup.

    I run a Sub9/808 on 700x22 Conti Comps.  They are butyl tubes, so probably not as fast as latex.  But I have not flatted yet, and I have heard many people having delicacy issues with Vittorias.  I will not say they are bad as I've never used them, but I'm just throwing out what I have heard.  The 320 TPIs are supposed to be nice though.  I don't believe c02 holds very well in latex tubes in case of flat, btw.  I am 5'11" 170lbs, so 22s are about the smallest I'm comfortable running.  I glue heavily with Mastik One, no extender on the disc, Zipp extender on the 808 w/ teflon tape.  I'll probably swap to a removable core extender next time I re-glue. 

    I do not put any sealant in beforehand (Stan's or Effeto Maripossa) b/c I'm not sure what happens when that stuff sits over time & I'm not buying/gluing new tubies every year. 

    Flat kit is as follows: 

    Sprint > DNF

    Olympic > DNF (maybe PitStop if I remember to bring it)

    Half > Pitstop first...pre-stretched tubie second.

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