Pacing Bike and Run During Sprint and Olympic Race
I am aware of the short course pacing article, however it references HR instead of power and pace. Can someone put it nicely to match are long course pacing format. Thanks. "A" races are sprint and olympic in May and I am getting ready to create some race sims and workouts to amend the OS to address specificity. I have done this in the past, but would like your input on pacing first, before I start validating ideas on workouts and simulations.
The info I have:
Sprint
bike 95%of FTP, run open 10k pace based on VDOT
Olympic
bike 92-95%of FTP, run open HMP based on VDOT
Is that close, is there more to it. Thanks
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Comments
I'm usually working so hard in these "shorter" races I don't have any capacity to look at, much less understand pace data on the run. But I agree that those paces are what I end up doing speed-wise, although it feels harder.
For the bike, on the Sprint, I try to do that at my FTP, not at 95%. I just pretend I'm doing an EN test on that leg. For Oly, I agree with that range as a good target, but I'm willing to pump it up towards 98% in the last 3-4 miles if I'm rested and trained for it.
Given the amount of training we do at FTP and TP levels, I think we should have a good ingrained sense of what the pace is for these races, and usually require little data do what's needed. Unless one is a reluctant racer, and needs a external whip to work hard enough.
All of my racing to-date has been pre-power, so maybe this will not be helpful.
Essentially, I have never found the point where I biked "too hard" in an oly. Every race I have biked harder than the last, trying to find the point where it would undermine my run. But gains from going harder on the bike have always been more valuable then the run cost.
In the Chicago tri last year I rode so hard that I was TRYING to fry myself for the run. I already had a good oly PB so this was a deliberate high-risk strategy. And it paid off. I came close to averaging 24mph on the bike, which was better than 1.5mph over my prior triathlon PB. On the run I ended up within seconds of HMP overall, but that was not because of a specific strategy. I used RPE, ran "barely under control" for the first 3.5, then picked it up until mile 5 when I hit the "time to empty the tank" point (which I timed badly due to a misunderstanding of the course, and ended up with too much in the tank at the end).
For my HIMs this year I am planning to follow EN race execution strategy like it is a religion. But for my oly race in June I feel pretty good about my execution based on RPE so may in fact run with the data I used last year, then do post-race analysis to see where all the watts ended up. I can then use that data to be more strategic when it comes to late season oly.
This is probably not all that helpful in answering the question. But I feel like the EN body of knowledge on short course is very early stage compared to long course. As such, your own time tested approaches may be better then trying something new and less vetted. And then the results of your streategy can feed back to the team to expand and deepen the quality of the short course knowledge in EN.
I had some success in 2008, 2009 and one race in 2010 racing short course. I fully agree as to how they feel. No questions there.
I raced those based on feel. No power. Here is the general outcome:
I was among the fastest swimmers out of the water, sprints in the top 3-4 bike splits, olympic bike was a mixed bag, several very fast splits in the top 3, but also a couple of pretty slow, sprint run has not been a problem, but olympic run has been troublesome every time, way below HMP pace.
Sprints have all been sub 1 hr, all AG podium, top 5 overall, one overall podium. Olympic has been not so solid, never brought it close to 2:10, left at more like 2:18.
After doing this solid OS work, that really focuses well on SC racing, I want to start racing with some metrix and pacing that in accordance with training.
No Joule here, racing rolling courses, how important is AP vs NP?
Sprint : Depending on the length of the course, you could probably get away with 100% of FTP, especially after the first 5 minutes. Run pace sounds about right. I generally finish the 5K 30 seconds to 1 minute off my open 5K. The fitter you are, the closer you should come to your open 5K.
Olympic: Bike pacing sounds about right, but if you are having trouble running, then you might want to drop it to 87-92%. I think you can run faster. Threshold pace maybe? I run Olympic distance races about 10-20 seconds a mile faster than open HMP. I probably underachieve on the bike to accomplish that, but I am a terrible runner.
I haven't raced with power before, but my guess is that the AP v. NP equation isn't so important in short course. If you watch the ITU races, they have huge VI's making and chasing down breaks, and accelerating out of the turns, yet they seem to run pretty well. Yes, the concept of match-burning is still applicable (watch the video of Brownlee completely cracking in the last 400 meters of one race last year, or look up Matty Reed's run splits at ITU races), but unless you are throwing down VO2 max intervals on the bike, I don't think you are out there long enough to kill your legs.
This is beyond the call of your question, but have you looked how your swim pacing and tactics affect your bike/run? Like you, I am out of the water in the top 5 at basically every race. My best bike/run performances have come in races where I sat on hip of the guy right in front of me, drafting, during 90% of the swim, and my less good performances have come in races where I swam alone.
@Michael, I want every response I can get. Thank you for responding. All very helpful, some points I would like to touch with you.
Let's go backwards. Swim pacing. I think I am swimming it too hard, where in sprint it is short that it does not poke it's ugly head. Where in olympic, 1500m is long enough to put a dent into bike/run performance. I am thinking that my past troubles with olympic originate there. I agree, my best performances have come after effective drafting during the swim.
AP/NP power ceilings, burning matches is at a heart of my concern. In order to ignore AP vs. NP even in short course and apply all out climbing on rolling courses, you have to train like that. While I agree on ITU style, they spend enormous amount of time training at VO2max, we don't. 2.5min intervals don't cut it in my opinion to the point where you can just blast it and forget it.
Speaking of all of that, should there be any cap on power during uphill sections?
I appreciate your response. This is all great stuff.
But the cap for you probably depends on (a) how fit you are; (b) how strong your running is; and (c) how you have trained to handle VO2 max bursts. MY OS plan includes a 20-30 minute brick run after the Tuesday VO2 intervals at Z1 pace. Could you experiment by throwing in a 1 mile hard effort in there to see how your body reacts to the high VI ride?
Take the HR guidance from the short course wiki article and just apply power intensity zones to it, like you do with every other workout:
Short answer is:
Save all IF, TSS, and VI analysis for afterwards, not during the race.
@Michael thank you.
@Coach, that is excellent, thank you as well.
This leads to final two questions, these will end in Macro/Micro thread for approval, just before I do that, would like some opinions here.
I am in week 11 OS. Starting with week 15 of OS, I am thinking about modifying one session, Tuesday brick or Thursday bike to accommodate a different brick work:
trainer/track combo, 3-4x10min@FTP+800m 10k pace or 1600m HMP with 4-5min recovery on the trainer
or
30-45min@95%FTP+3-4mi@HMP, basically a sort of a race simulation
That may require adjusting the Wednesday run intensity, in scenario 1 for sure.
Good or bad idea, if bad, what would you do for a more SC specific work, or not touch OS at all?
Taper/peaking, how many days...........A race sprint week 19, A race olympic week 20.
Thanks
for race sim, I wouldn't worry about it so much. Race sim is mostly to nail pacing, and if you think your pacing problems are related to swimming too hard, you're not going to capture that in either workout. There's no magical fitness benefit to either of the suggested workouts. I'd plug along with the plan where you are. The other factor in an Oly is nutrition. If you're trying to do it on just water, or haven't done nutrition right the previous day or two, that works in a sprint, but could explain struggling a bit on the run.
For taper, I'd work hard through week 18, and then dial back the week 19 stuff leading up to the sprint. Then, week 20 would be about staying sharp between the two races.
Mike
@Mike, thanks for your response. Sounds very reasonable to me, I will take your advice, will leave OS alone as is. Everything else taken also. thank you.
That sound reasonable? I would like to do well in this 5150 race, but, it isn't the A race...CdA is where it counts for me this year.