Long run question??
In the past as a personally coached triathlete the schedule always called for the long run of the week to follow the long bike. This usually meant Saturday and Sunday. The reasoning was always to train the legs to run well while fatigued. Makes sense to me. Our program has the long run on Thursday and double bike workouts on the weekend. What is the reasoning behind this format as opposed to what I have done and read in my days before EN?
0
Comments
Jeff, not to disparage your former coaching, but that's quite old skool thinking. A long run on tired leg is just another opportunity to practice running slowly on tired legs. Also, in my experience, the recovery cost of a long run done on Sunday, for example, after a long Saturday bike is much greater than that same run done mid-week, as we do it. The net is that Monday, often Tuesday, and sometimes Wednesday's workouts begin to become compromised, especially as that weekend volume gets up to a 4-6hrs long bike on Saturday (typical IM long bike training volume, for other people, not us) and 2.5-3hr long run.
Back in 2000-01 I trained like this: 5-6hr long bike on Saturday and 2.5-3hr long run on Sunday. The Sunday run also included 2 x 5.5mi at tempo (I wasn't very bright). Toss in 2x bike interval sessions during the week and a track workout on Wednesdays and I was fookin' shagged.
Anyway, I made the switch to a Thurs long run in '02 or '03, I believe, and never looked back. By separating the long bike from the long run:
m
Usually I am asking a question already knowing the answer as in this case but not being a WSM I want to be sure of myself first. I have several friends who have been quizzing me about this and as you answered was pretty much what I was telling them but wanted it straight from the Haus's mouth just to be sure. Thanks for the quick response.
@ Jeff - For those who wonder how you will train yourself to run on tired legs (not that it matters), you can always refer them to the bricks you do - plenty of practice there. Also, the way we do long runs, with a fair amount of HMP work in the first half, our legs are PLENTY tired in the second half of those runs, but without the quad thrashing that a bike/run Sat/Sun schedule provides.
But I agree that's a specious arguement. I think there's more sense in the idea that training your legs to get stronger and faster is best done in a somewhat shorter (2 hours as opposed to 3) long run done with a mix of speeds on rested legs.
And "endurance problems" in the IM marathon are almost always bike and early run pacing problems, not fixable by running more, or more when tired.
In addition to the points Rich makes, there's also the refueling issue. For me, a tiring (4 hour) bike on Sat requires more than 24 hours to fully replenish glycogen stores. Prior to 2005, when I switched to a mid-week long run, I routinely would be bonking on my Sunday runs over 1:45-2 hours. On the Friday "rest" day, make sure you keep stoking in the carbs for those weekend rides.
And another thing about the whole "practice running on tired legs thing:"
Any long run in training will have at least an hour or more where your legs feel Ok. That is, they feel like you're starting a long run after a long bike the day before.
Contrast this to Ironman race day, where you're coming right off a 112 mi bike after a 2.4mi swim. After you get your legs back a bit, by about mile 6 or 7, your legs will now feel like, at best, about mile 13-15 of your best long run...then it just gets harder.
My point is that your tired legs on Sunday long run isn't even close to what it's going to feel like on race day...so why bother?
I've been fightin' this fight for years and, in my opinion, it's a clear line in the sand that separates Old from New Skool. It clearly identifies coaches and self-coached athletes who get it vs those who don't have enough experience, haven't done it themselves, and/or haven't stepped back to think things through more critically.
For example this weekend we have a st party's day party to go to on Saturday night. Sunday am i am pretty sure that i will not want to run for 2 hours. Biking for a couple will be fine though.
Recommend you swap Tuesday and Thursday, so long run Tuesday.
If I want to do a run-focused week :I'll do the long run mid week as usual then substitute a run of 2/3 the distance of the midweek long run on Sunday instead of the Sunday bike session. I'll usually do this 7 and 5 weeks out from the race. A Sunday run of 1hr 40min at goal ironman pace does not comprimise the next weeks workouts in my experience.