Is group rides Okay or should I ride solo?

Chad Scott

So I need some help with some training questions. I’ve been training with EN for 3 years now and love the plans. The plans work and have been successful for me thus far, I’ve followed them pretty religiously week after week. The downside is it’s mostly just been me pushing myself…..me riding solo. I’ve just recently been doing some groups rides around town so they could push me more then I could push myself and the result has been freaking great. I’m achieving some numbers I’ve never achieved before. I know in the past people have always said try and find people to work out with that will push you, well…..these guys kick my Butt and I feel I can’t push myself that hard if I’m in my garage or riding solo. Below are some of my numbers of group rides vs solo rides so you can see just how much more I push the pedals when I’m trying to hang on the back of the group or god forbid they let me pull and imploid myself.



This year my focus is getting faster and I’m sticking to HIM and shorter so I don’t have to worry so much of the volume as HIM is the longest race this year. 



Is it okay to incorporate group rides, they don’t fit too good into my weekly schedule though because the group rides are Tue, Thurs, and Saturday?



Is it okay to not do the prescribed workouts, meaning I’m not doing 2x20 but the overall work in a group ride is much more then I would get out of a ride on the trainer?



If I should do group rides, how should I adjust my schedule?



I’m defiantly not locked in the aero position on these rides like I would if I was solo, should I do certain rides on my own and some rides with groups to make sure I’m getting workouts in my aero position? Or is there a certain point out from a race where I should be doing all workouts solo, however, I feel like I get more “WORK” done in a group?



Thanks for the help Team!



Some workout data, my FTP is 225!



Group Ride on Thursday

Entire workout (155 watts):

        Duration:       1:29:35 (1:33:03)

        Work:           897 kJ

        TSS:            159.6 (intensity factor 1.047)

        Norm Power:     236

        VI:             1.38

        Distance:       27.323 mi

                Min     Max     Avg

        Power:          0       808     171     watts

        Speed:          0       40.9   18.7    mph



Trainer Workout in garage

Entire workout (191 watts):

        Duration:       1:06:38 (1:07:16)

        Work:           752 kJ

        TSS:            93.4 (intensity factor 0.923)

        Norm Power:     208

        VI:             1.09

        Distance:       20.225 mi

                Min     Max     Avg

        Power:          0       290     191     watts

        Cadence:        30      152     81      rpm

        Speed:          2.5     21.7    18.4    mph

 

Group ride on Saturday

Entire workout (171 watts):

        Duration:       2:23:37 (2:31:35)

        Work:           1434 kJ

        TSS:            229.5 (intensity factor 0.992)

        Norm Power:     223

        VI:             1.31

        Distance:       42.634 mi

                Min     Max     Avg

        Power:          0       611     171     watts

        Cadence:        30      198     81      rpm

        Speed:          2.2     41.1    18.3    mph



Outside Saturday ride Solo

Entire workout (180 watts):

        Duration:       3:01:36 (3:32:59)

        Work:           1948 kJ

        TSS:            251.3 (intensity factor 0.915)

        Norm Power:     195

        VI:             1.08

        Distance:       52.96 mi

                Min     Max     Avg

        Power:          0       431     180     watts

        Cadence:        29      159     79      rpm

        Speed:          2.2     28.1    17.6    mph

 

ironmtngrl

Thanks for asking this question. I have been wondering the same thing.

jetskr

I'd suspect that it depends on where you are in your race prep. If you look at the VI of your solo vs. group rides there is a pretty huge difference. The closer to your race you get the closer to 1.0 you want to get that number.

Coach Rich

I believe you should ride with a group, or at least stronger riders, as often as you can, especially in the OutSeason, General Prep, Make-Me-Faster portions of your training. When you get in race prep, or let's say 8-12wks out from your race, you definitely want to lock yourself in the aerobars as much as possible...but hammering with a group is still a good thing. You can still get in very good FTP (or much more) intervals by

• going off the front, sitting at the front forever, ride out to side, just off the back, etc.
• Do your own solo thing first, then drop in on the group in the last 45' of the ride. Then just murder yourself, as hard as you can. This is one of my favorites and I even got away from a 150+ man group once, putting up 315w+ on my tri bike in a solo 30' breakaway

In general, don't over think it. The harder you go, the more work you do, the faster you get faster. It's MUCH easier, and more fun, to do this kind of work in a group vs solo. However, withing this guidance, yeah, at some point you need to lock yourself in the bars but you can still do a good bit of that work within a group setting.

Oh yeah, you need to bump your FTP up. Those IF's are too high for rides that long, even if in a group.

Chad Scott

I'm mainly talking about within the 12 week build of HIM.
Thanks Rich, I've toyed with going off the front and riding out to the side so I can get in the bars a little more and I'm getting a little better at it but still learning the ropes of group riding though! However, on Saturday rides this is a lot easier to do then the weekday rides as there is a little more room and a slower pace. I figured I could start doing some solo riding before and after if I need to.
What about the days the rides fall on. Is it okay to flip flop a ride with a run, Say long run on Wednesday instead of Thursday? Or should I just stick to the scheduled workout and only ride on the days you tell me to ride? Jump on a group ride if there is one that day and keep schedule as is! I kinda feel like this would be the best option, whatcha think?

....I'm testing tomorrow and looking forward to the big FTP jump I have coming. I've been killing it so I pumped to see the results.

Coach Rich

Chad, we've put a lot of thought and experimentation into the layout of the workouts across the week. This gets especially critical in the Race Prep phase, as the volume goes up, etc. You don't want to mess with the scheduling of the sessions of you don't have to.

Next time I come to Atlanta to visit my sister I'll see if I can a hold of a bike. I'd love to ride with some different people, especially a group ride.

Chad Scott

Enough Said......that's kinda what I figured and that's what I planed on doing as I've never really deviated from the plans and it's worked out just fine for me. I'll just keep plugging along and if it works out that I get a group ride in on my ride day then so be it, if not then I'll be glued to the bars! I've just really taking a liking to group rides lately.

Bring it on, I do have a K2 Aluminum road bike in the garage that barely gets used that's got your name on it. I know we are roughly the same size so it should be a good fit, I doubt I could hold your wheel though!

Thanks Rich!

Chris G

As was mentioned by Rich, your FTP is more like 245.  

Tom Glynn

Posted By Chad Scott on 05 Apr 2011 03:13 PM



Bring it on, I do have a K2 Aluminum road bike in the garage that barely gets used that's got your name on it. I know we are roughly the same size so it should be a good fit, I doubt I could hold your wheel though!



Thanks Rich!

RIch is mostly talk, holding his wheel is easier than you might imagine.  Just keep him off the caffeine and you're all set 

Coach Rich

Chad,

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, though I've been doing a good job of getting them to come to me after making 3-4x family trips back east last year. My sister brought my nephew out to Cali last month for skiing/snowboarding, and the twins are planning to come to Madison in September to see me race. But when I do get out there, I go a little nuts after a few days and need to escape. Curious to ride a bike in Atlanta, though my impression is that the riding isn't very safe or varied? Probably better in a group though and I'd love to ride in the mtns sometime.

chris malone

Um...sorry to unhijack the thread but I went out with the lbs racing team, et al tonight for the Wednesday ride.

1 hour, 44 mins.
IF: .90
NP: 291, and that included noodling warm up and smack talking.
Peak 10 mins: 357w
Max hr: 166
(Ain't no way, no how, am I'm getting that on a trainer wko, or a solo ride. My top end is usually 158-160.)

And this was an early season, "ease into it" ride- not all that focused or intense and there is still good work getting done.
Some people don't like riding in groups or attacking, pulling, trying to drop each other, etc. But if you like mixing it up, it is the only way to fly. It's like people who love their job. It's not really work.