@ Scott - Super run test. 50 VDOT and a great improvement from 43. You're setting yourself up for strong race.
@ Stephanie - Hang in there. we all have moments of doubt about our training. Just keep plugging away and we'll keep cheering you on.
@ Van- Good swim and nice long long run. Tought to do when you are on the raod so much.
@ GH - Nice swim and good bike test. No more M&Ms. Did you secretly get an In & Out Burger?
@ Allen- really nice improvement on the bike.
@ Al- Sounds like you are doing great with your modified plan.
@ Tucker - I'm with you in the 19 minute swim group. Maybe one day...
@ Michael - Nice pacing on your run test. That will serve you well.
I did the bike test on Tuesday. Down 5% since the OS. Just didn't have it mentally and couldn't maintain the same cadance as in prior test. I'm going to stick with the same HR zones from prior test. But the 3 mile brick run @ 8:30 pace felt effortless. Go figure. Then hopped on a plane to Phoenix. Found a pool to swim in this morning and did 3000 yds. More business meetings then another plane to Portland, OR. Gonna skip the run test tomorrow am since I don't know a course and will just do a 60' run. Then drive to Bend OR for meetings Thursday pm. Drive back to Portland Friday am to catch a plane back to Chicago. Gonna push the swim TT to next Monday since I don't feel like doing a test after traveling for 8 hours. Long rides on both Sat and Sunday...
ditto all of bruce's sentiments...and way to get the work done with all that travel, Bruce. greg's 13.5 on the track deserves an award...did you run the same direction the whole time?!
bruce, i blamed the swimming for my weight increase, but in fact it was Nutella!!! they had 2 for 6bucks (normally closer to 8bucks) at the market, bastards.
shannon, welcome to my world, except in my world add super nerdy to the stuffy!! the other day i asked a guy on my campus a question, he didn't understand what i was asking, so he said, "can you recompile, please?" hope you feel better.
Hey gang! Setting on an airplane waiting many hours trying to get to Chicago. Sounds like every one is having a super week. I had two really good swims on Tuesday and Wednesday. They almost made me feel like I can do this. Ran a couple miles with my daughter last night. She is going to attempt the ToughKids Tri at WestPoint in Aug. Did I mention that she is 6!
Decided to do my first RR this weekend! Need to free up the PowerTap for shipping to ToC. So regardless the FTP test is not going to happen. Just the thought of another 7 hour day has me anxious, but will try to get it done. Planning an easy route where I can really work on nutrition this time. A lesson learned from the Big Day!
@Shannon: All my "no-cold" mojo is coming your way.
@ GH, you're starting to make me think that maybe I'm not as slow of a swimmer as I thought. Maybe my problem is just that I'm a poor open water swimmer. In looking back, right before Oceanside I did a 1000 yd test in 15:10 (1:31/100 yd). At Oceanside I went 46:xx (2:15ish/100 yd). Last year I did a 2.4 mile pool swim in 1:21:xx, then went 2:08:xx at IMFL three weeks later. I think at lunch I'll start at thread in one of the forums looking for open water swim tips. Hopefully the lakes around here warm up soon so that I can get some practice in.
@ Scott: the size of your drop-off from pool to open water makes me think that there is an issue with your wetsuit. Do you feel constricted at all? Does your stroke feel dramatically different? The other issue could be swimming in a straight line... how often do you sight? Advice varies on how often you should, but definitely practice sighting more frequently until you get a sense for how much you need to in order to stay straight. Lastly, and please don't take this the wrong way, but how sure are you of your pool times? I only ask as I have a heckuva time keeping track of laps myself. For me, I have to use my 310XT and hit the lap button every 100 yards. Then when I get back home, I have to deconstruct how many lengths I actually swam... in other words, I am so bad at remembering where I am in the pool, that even when I hit the lap button every "4" lengths, I STILL get it wrong.
I just finished my Swim TT and completed the 1000m test in 20:06. That's about what I was expecting as it is consistent with my pace in the Big Day swim last weekend.
Well that was a short trip but long morning. Spent almost 7 hours at the airport for my flight to be canceled, and nothing available until late this afternoon. Looks like I get to do more biking or swimming after all.
@Scott-I wonder if you end up doing a REALLY good job staying calm in the open water and end up kind of coasting through the swim instead of pacing yourself as you would in a pool with lots of visual pace aids. You ought to find a know distance (200-400m/yds) to practice swimming in the open water and start working on that pacing. I have a hunch that your issue is pacing more than anything.
@Scott: Agreed with above in the discrepancy between the pool and open water. Im usually faster in the open water because of the lack of flip turns....Can you test in the open water anywhere? I site every six strokes and I count the entire way to keep my rhythm right. Without the feedback of the bottom of the pool, I find I start slowing my stroke and coasting too much in the open water otherwise. Just food for thought.
Well went to do my vdot run this morning and got to the park where I do it and saw signs saying it was closed. Got down to the path and sure enough, water over the trail I was planning on doing the testing on. So qucikly ran back and went to the jeep then headed to the local track. got there and found out that they were tearing up the center and repaving it, so couldn't use that either. So that being said, I get to move it out to when I get back home from work today if I can find a decent place to do it.
Looks like lots of us are dealing with having to change things up. Good luck and happy training.
@ Art, I think you might be on to something via the wetsuit fit. It does feel snug (maybe too snug?). I also notice that after I swim with it on, the muscles in my shoulders are always much more sore then when I swim without it. I think it might be restricting my arm rotation causing my shoulders to work harder as well as preventing me from reaching out as far in front of me, meaning my pull is probably shorter. Also, since I use a full sleeve wetsuit, I think that I loose some of the feel of my stroke, which likely causes my stroke to not be as smooth as when I'm in the pool.
As far as sighting goes, I usually sight every 8 strokes. I feel like I do a pretty good job of staying on coarse. I'm sure I add a little distance to each open water swim I do, but certainly not the difference we're talking about.
As far as timing goes for my pool swims (don't worry, no offense taken), I use my Timex watch. The pool I swim in is 20 yds, so 5 lengths for 100 yds and 10 lengths for 200 yds. I always look at my splits every 200 yds. If I'm swiming longer then that, I look at my watch as I turn and push off the wall. I'm consistently between 3:00 and 3:05 per 200 yds.
@ Stephen, that's something I'll have to think about. Maybe the excitement from the race distracts me from focusing on my pacing, although I always feel like I'm working just as hard as when I'm in a pool.
@ Greg, I'm hoping the water temps warm up around here soon so that I have time to practice more in open water. I checked last night, and all of the temp readings I found for local lakes were in the high 40's. I've swam in water as low as 52ish, and that was about at my limit.
@ Scott: 20 yard pool?! Im not sure if thats worse or better than my .125 track!
Just finished up the 5k test. I guess with the minimal interval running, Disney World, and the 13.5 on Monday, I shouldn't be too upset with being 13 seconds faster today. 21:24. I need to seriously work on this running this year. You guys are killing me.
Epic fail of a workout day for me! Thursdays are usually a great day for me. Babysitter comes at 11 so I have 2 hours 30 minutes to exercise. Today no different except today I planned to hit a local TT course to test my FTP. It about 13 miles in total and takes 30-34ish minutes. Was getting all set to shove off when it started to rain. Ok, onto Plan B. I will do my Vdot test at a local track. Change into my running gear and as I approach the door the skies open up even further. I'm talking downpour stuff. Ok, so I had no issues running in some little rain, but downpours are something different. Basically got nothing athletic done today. Damn winds shifted slightly east and screwed me.
On the positive side I finished painting my bedroom, fixed my garage door opener, and unclogged some gutters. So the wife will be happy. And we're going to the beach sans kids this weekend so you know what that means!!!!!
So tomorrow is up early. FTP test. Pack for weekend. Definitely riding Saturday and Sunday. Just trying to figure out where to work in a Vdot test? Maybe Friday late afternoon/early evening?
VDot test done in 22:45 for a 42.7 score. I have been rolling with my 10k VDot from end of OS (41.6) as I found the zones from the 5k test (43.6) prior to the 10k just too hard to hit. A 42.6 has my HMP at 7:57... I can maybe hold that pace for 4 or 5 miles right now. IN short my longer distance Vdots are way lower than my shorter distance VDots. I attribute this to very very little lide expereince with longer distance running. Any suggestions as to whether I stick with my old 10K VDot (41.6) or go wit hthe new 5k VDot (42.7)?
@ Scott: 20 yard pool... hmmm.. are you really good at turns and pushing off the walls in the pool? I'm not even sure one can be faster coming off the walls than swimming (which would therefore mean smaller pools give you faster results than bigger pools), just thinking out loud. Maybe the discrepancy between pool and OWS is that + wetsuit fit issues... obviously I don't know, just trying to help you sleuth it out...
@Scott- Have you gone to any of the Mary Meyer swim clinics? http://www.marymeyerlifefitness.com/swimTrain/swimOpenWater/index.html I've never been, but I've heard good things. She does quite a few and also does some open water clinics as well. It looks like she has at least one open water clinic before race day. I have been in the same boat (so to speak) as you. I could muscle my way through some pretty good/fast pool workouts, but fall apart in the open water. I would recommend getting someone to check your out your stroke both in the pool and in open water. I have done a ton to work on my stroke, so I think I should be faster in the water this year. However, I'm not going to chance it and will go to a series of open water clinics down here in the southend starting in May. Yes, it will be very cold, but I need to make sure the work I've done in the pool will translate to the open water. I too was thinking the wet suit had something to do with it, but when I got my open water stroke looked at last year, it was all me.
art: use the 5km vdot when you run short and use the 10km vdot when you run long. keep a close eye on your pacing when you run long and refine pace accordingly, one way or the other. eventually find 13.1, if you can and go off that vdot.
went on run today, excited to finally have 80 degree weather and there was even a nice cooling wind. overgrowth on my running trail obscured a small tree trunk and WHAM!!!! my poor pinky toe...that happened at mile 5, still ran the rest of the route albeit slower and with toe throbbing...just looked at it and have a huge blood blister that i am going to need to pop, will likely lose the pinky toe nail. sucks. not broken though, so there is a positive side.
Bike Test Done- No fancy power meter (yet) but on the same TT circuit I've used since the OS, I covered 14.66 miles, 22.0 mph avg, 82 cadence. A nice avg speed bump since the OS (original 20.3 mph avg).
Good morning folks! With all of this testing going on in the group I felt compelled to do at least one of them this week. Believe it or not I opted for the swim TT, mainly because this is one that I have never done before.
Hit the pool at 6am for the 3rd time this week. Did a 400m WU and then jumped right into the 1000m TT. I simply tried to focus on swimming as smoothly as I could. The end results are nothing stellar compared to some other numbers being posted but they are my numbers and I am actually quit proud of them. I finished the 1000m in 26:59. This includes standing turns on each end of the pool and a couple google adjustments in order to see my watch. I rested for 60' and then finished off the day with another 1000m in 27:30.
I finally feel like I have a shot at finishing the swim leg of the IM. Yes, it may take me close to 2 hours, but I will get out of the water in time to attempt the bike & run. I now have 8 weeks to improve on this time. With consistency I can only hope it will improve.
@ Greg, your 1/8 mile track is definitely worse then my 20 yd pool. If it were me, I'd use a treadmill. And with all you've been dealing with (being sick, vacation, ect.) I wouldn't worry about a small vdot decrease.
@ Art, I don't THINK there's anything special about how I turn in the pool, but who knows. I can't do flip turns, I just grab the top of the pool wall, swing my legs under me, then push off the wall. I actually might try to swim at one of the public pools in Seattle this weekend (which are typically 25 yds instead of 20 yds) which would give me another frame of reference.
@ Michael, I've thought about the Mary Meyer clinics before, but just never did any of them. It looks like the first open water clinic is two weeks out from race day. If I'm still trying to figure things out at that point, I'll probably do it. I think I'll just need to suck it up and start doing some open water swimming in a couple of weeks, despite water temps being really low.
@ GH, I think I'm going to take that advice on doing a 10k vdot test. I definitely struggle on long runs when using my 5k vdot paces. I was planning to arbitrarily lowering my pace for race day, but I like the idea of doing a little longer test.
Did my FTP test today. Should have known better than to test after a few days of doing nothing. Felt pretty dead. Lungs still not there as I was coughing up a lung on the ride. To top things off when I went to download the data, nada. Lovely. Second time in about a month I've lost data from the LYC. Seriously need to consider an alternative, possibly with GPS. Thoughts?
Well at least it was a good workout. Legs feel nice and toasty. Plan on running 6 with my wife later this afternoon. Thinking EP/HMP-MP split. Will have to see how she does with the speed.
@Tucker: I am feeling more confident everyday. I honestly know I have a shot at finishing what I started. Have the first RR lined up for this weekend. Route, nutrition, hydration plan all laid out. Ready to go get it done! Hope you start feeling better. BTW, I have the Edge 705 and like it a lot. However, considering switching to the Joule to get IF and TSS.
Tucker: run your wife's pace, don't ruin the weekend for yourself, if u know what I mean!
Art: you are welcome. Simply swim in front of me at CDa and we'll call it even
Peter: my first im swim was 1:50ish. Simply stay consistent in training and you'll be fine. Try adjusting goggles and even resting on your back in the pool. This way you can do it easily at the race with no stress if neeed.
I am sure you all were waiting to ask about my toe in another post....! It is much better today after I drained the blood. I should be ready to run Monday. Riding and swimming shouldn't be affected fir this weekend.
(Hard to follow a post which includes the sentence "I drained the blood"....)
Swim test done- 17:01, no toys, just straight up swimming. Down from 18:04 six weeks ago. I won't do the happy dance until I get out in the open water and make sure this progress is for real, but I feel much stronger in the water than I have since I started doing tri's.
@Peter- I have always sucked at swimming. I came out of the water in about 1800th place in 2009 at IMCDA, but knew I could ride well and passed about 900 people. So yeah, just get out of the water without doing any damage and you'll be fine. FWIW- the best tool I discovered before getting in the pool this year (besidesthe EN Swim eBook) was YouTube. They have tons of very good swimming instruction videos that really helped me (finally) start to put it together. It made a HUGE difference.
Run TT complete. I wasn't sure how it would go given the IT Band issue I had during the Big Day run last Saturday. I picked up a foam roller last Monday and have been using it several times per day. The good news, my knees felt great and I beat my last TT time. Here are my Run TT results since joining EN in late-December:
OK, so things are starting to make sense again. I just got back from swimming at one of the public pools here in Seattle (25 yd pool). After a quick warm-up I did my 1000 yd swim test and ended up right at 18:03 (1:48/100 yd). I am now convinced that the pool at my gym is less then 20 yds (which is what I was told it was when I joined two years ago). I'm a little disappointed that I've been doing shorter workouts then what I thought I was doing, but there's plenty of time to work hard before the race. Thank you all for your input and helping me figure things out.
@Allen- Those are some serous gains, nice going!!! Adjust those zones and feel the hurt!!! @Scott- Someone needs to smack that gym around!!!! It also meant that you were getting lots of wall action and that does not translate to the open water very well. Good to get it figured out now!
@Scott-shorter than 20y? I have a 25m and a 20y option at my gym, and I will occasionally have to hop in the 20y pool and I feel like all I ever do is turn around. I cant imagine swimming in something shorter!
If I were you, I would definitely seek out a second gym (or replacement gym) or secure access to an open water swimming area! It is 8 weeks and counting, that is a 2 month commitment if you had to pay for a second gym...I am just thinking out loud here.
Comments
@ Shannon- Don't get sick! Don't get sick!
@ Scott - Super run test. 50 VDOT and a great improvement from 43. You're setting yourself up for strong race.
@ Stephanie - Hang in there. we all have moments of doubt about our training. Just keep plugging away and we'll keep cheering you on.
@ Van- Good swim and nice long long run. Tought to do when you are on the raod so much.
@ GH - Nice swim and good bike test. No more M&Ms. Did you secretly get an In & Out Burger?
@ Allen- really nice improvement on the bike.
@ Al- Sounds like you are doing great with your modified plan.
@ Tucker - I'm with you in the 19 minute swim group. Maybe one day...
@ Michael - Nice pacing on your run test. That will serve you well.
I did the bike test on Tuesday. Down 5% since the OS. Just didn't have it mentally and couldn't maintain the same cadance as in prior test. I'm going to stick with the same HR zones from prior test. But the 3 mile brick run @ 8:30 pace felt effortless. Go figure. Then hopped on a plane to Phoenix. Found a pool to swim in this morning and did 3000 yds. More business meetings then another plane to Portland, OR. Gonna skip the run test tomorrow am since I don't know a course and will just do a 60' run. Then drive to Bend OR for meetings Thursday pm. Drive back to Portland Friday am to catch a plane back to Chicago. Gonna push the swim TT to next Monday since I don't feel like doing a test after traveling for 8 hours. Long rides on both Sat and Sunday...
Stay healthy everyone.
ditto all of bruce's sentiments...and way to get the work done with all that travel, Bruce. greg's 13.5 on the track deserves an award...did you run the same direction the whole time?!
bruce, i blamed the swimming for my weight increase, but in fact it was Nutella!!! they had 2 for 6bucks (normally closer to 8bucks) at the market, bastards.
shannon, welcome to my world, except in my world add super nerdy to the stuffy!! the other day i asked a guy on my campus a question, he didn't understand what i was asking, so he said, "can you recompile, please?"
hope you feel better.
GH
Decided to do my first RR this weekend! Need to free up the PowerTap for shipping to ToC. So regardless the FTP test is not going to happen. Just the thought of another 7 hour day has me anxious, but will try to get it done. Planning an easy route where I can really work on nutrition this time. A lesson learned from the Big Day!
@Shannon: All my "no-cold" mojo is coming your way.
Have a great one gang!
Looks like lots of us are dealing with having to change things up. Good luck and happy training.
@ Art, I think you might be on to something via the wetsuit fit. It does feel snug (maybe too snug?). I also notice that after I swim with it on, the muscles in my shoulders are always much more sore then when I swim without it. I think it might be restricting my arm rotation causing my shoulders to work harder as well as preventing me from reaching out as far in front of me, meaning my pull is probably shorter. Also, since I use a full sleeve wetsuit, I think that I loose some of the feel of my stroke, which likely causes my stroke to not be as smooth as when I'm in the pool.
As far as sighting goes, I usually sight every 8 strokes. I feel like I do a pretty good job of staying on coarse. I'm sure I add a little distance to each open water swim I do, but certainly not the difference we're talking about.
As far as timing goes for my pool swims (don't worry, no offense taken), I use my Timex watch. The pool I swim in is 20 yds, so 5 lengths for 100 yds and 10 lengths for 200 yds. I always look at my splits every 200 yds. If I'm swiming longer then that, I look at my watch as I turn and push off the wall. I'm consistently between 3:00 and 3:05 per 200 yds.
@ Stephen, that's something I'll have to think about. Maybe the excitement from the race distracts me from focusing on my pacing, although I always feel like I'm working just as hard as when I'm in a pool.
@ Greg, I'm hoping the water temps warm up around here soon so that I have time to practice more in open water. I checked last night, and all of the temp readings I found for local lakes were in the high 40's. I've swam in water as low as 52ish, and that was about at my limit.
@ Scott: 20 yard pool?! Im not sure if thats worse or better than my .125 track!
Just finished up the 5k test. I guess with the minimal interval running, Disney World, and the 13.5 on Monday, I shouldn't be too upset with being 13 seconds faster today. 21:24. I need to seriously work on this running this year. You guys are killing me.
On the positive side I finished painting my bedroom, fixed my garage door opener, and unclogged some gutters. So the wife will be happy. And we're going to the beach sans kids this weekend so you know what that means!!!!!
So tomorrow is up early. FTP test. Pack for weekend. Definitely riding Saturday and Sunday. Just trying to figure out where to work in a Vdot test? Maybe Friday late afternoon/early evening?
@ Scott: 20 yard pool... hmmm.. are you really good at turns and pushing off the walls in the pool? I'm not even sure one can be faster coming off the walls than swimming (which would therefore mean smaller pools give you faster results than bigger pools), just thinking out loud. Maybe the discrepancy between pool and OWS is that + wetsuit fit issues... obviously I don't know, just trying to help you sleuth it out...
art: use the 5km vdot when you run short and use the 10km vdot when you run long. keep a close eye on your pacing when you run long and refine pace accordingly, one way or the other. eventually find 13.1, if you can and go off that vdot.
went on run today, excited to finally have 80 degree weather and there was even a nice cooling wind. overgrowth on my running trail obscured a small tree trunk and WHAM!!!! my poor pinky toe...that happened at mile 5, still ran the rest of the route albeit slower and with toe throbbing...just looked at it and have a huge blood blister that i am going to need to pop, will likely lose the pinky toe nail. sucks. not broken though, so there is a positive side.
g
Hit the pool at 6am for the 3rd time this week. Did a 400m WU and then jumped right into the 1000m TT. I simply tried to focus on swimming as smoothly as I could. The end results are nothing stellar compared to some other numbers being posted but they are my numbers and I am actually quit proud of them. I finished the 1000m in 26:59. This includes standing turns on each end of the pool and a couple google adjustments in order to see my watch. I rested for 60' and then finished off the day with another 1000m in 27:30.
I finally feel like I have a shot at finishing the swim leg of the IM. Yes, it may take me close to 2 hours, but I will get out of the water in time to attempt the bike & run. I now have 8 weeks to improve on this time. With consistency I can only hope it will improve.
Have a great day!
@ Greg, your 1/8 mile track is definitely worse then my 20 yd pool. If it were me, I'd use a treadmill. And with all you've been dealing with (being sick, vacation, ect.) I wouldn't worry about a small vdot decrease.
@ Art, I don't THINK there's anything special about how I turn in the pool, but who knows. I can't do flip turns, I just grab the top of the pool wall, swing my legs under me, then push off the wall. I actually might try to swim at one of the public pools in Seattle this weekend (which are typically 25 yds instead of 20 yds) which would give me another frame of reference.
@ Michael, I've thought about the Mary Meyer clinics before, but just never did any of them. It looks like the first open water clinic is two weeks out from race day. If I'm still trying to figure things out at that point, I'll probably do it. I think I'll just need to suck it up and start doing some open water swimming in a couple of weeks, despite water temps being really low.
@ GH, I think I'm going to take that advice on doing a 10k vdot test. I definitely struggle on long runs when using my 5k vdot paces. I was planning to arbitrarily lowering my pace for race day, but I like the idea of doing a little longer test.
Did my FTP test today. Should have known better than to test after a few days of doing nothing. Felt pretty dead. Lungs still not there as I was coughing up a lung on the ride. To top things off when I went to download the data, nada. Lovely. Second time in about a month I've lost data from the LYC. Seriously need to consider an alternative, possibly with GPS. Thoughts?
Well at least it was a good workout. Legs feel nice and toasty. Plan on running 6 with my wife later this afternoon. Thinking EP/HMP-MP split. Will have to see how she does with the speed.
TGIF everyone!
Art: you are welcome. Simply swim in front of me at CDa and we'll call it even
Peter: my first im swim was 1:50ish. Simply stay consistent in training and you'll be fine. Try adjusting goggles and even resting on your back in the pool. This way you can do it easily at the race with no stress if neeed.
I am sure you all were waiting to ask about my toe in another post....! It is much better today after I drained the blood. I should be ready to run Monday. Riding and swimming shouldn't be affected fir this weekend.
Have a good one!
Gh
Swim test done- 17:01, no toys, just straight up swimming. Down from 18:04 six weeks ago. I won't do the happy dance until I get out in the open water and make sure this progress is for real, but I feel much stronger in the water than I have since I started doing tri's.
@Peter- I have always sucked at swimming. I came out of the water in about 1800th place in 2009 at IMCDA, but knew I could ride well and passed about 900 people. So yeah, just get out of the water without doing any damage and you'll be fine. FWIW- the best tool I discovered before getting in the pool this year (besidesthe EN Swim eBook) was YouTube. They have tons of very good swimming instruction videos that really helped me (finally) start to put it together. It made a HUGE difference.
1/5/11 - 31:24 (10:28 pace, vDot 28)
2/23/11 - 26:12 (8:44 pace, vDot 35)
4/29/11 - 23:45 (7:55 pace, vDot 39)
Glad to have all the TTs done and ready to enjoy the bike this weekend as the weather is supposed to be nice.
@Scott- Someone needs to smack that gym around!!!! It also meant that you were getting lots of wall action and that does not translate to the open water very well. Good to get it figured out now!
If I were you, I would definitely seek out a second gym (or replacement gym) or secure access to an open water swimming area! It is 8 weeks and counting, that is a 2 month commitment if you had to pay for a second gym...I am just thinking out loud here.