Testing Numbers Going Down, and I'm Rolling With It
I tested today. GREAT workout. However, final results had a 10%drop from end of OS. I'm not that upset cuz I know that I'm going strong right now. Just not sure what I'm doing wrong with this testing stuff.
Here's a little background... finished the end of Nov OS with a 225, road bike on trainer. Had an outdoor ride about that same time where I had 2+ hrs with a Pnorm of 247. I've heard that 20 watts is a common delta between outside and inside. So, this looked pretty legit to me. That was a 10%gain from the beginning of the OS. Happy with that progress. Hit the Transition period and stretched it from 2 weeks to 3 weeks. First week back was a struggle but the next 2 weeks (up to now), things have been clicking with everything...swim/bike/run/nutrition/etc. I mean, don't get me wrong, I ain't gonna go out and win anything, but, I'm feeling as strong now as I ever have.
On the SC plan for the summer, before I pick up the HIM plan for the Fall Rev 3 half in S. Carolina.
Today, called for a FTP test and, according to the numbers, it was a bust. Indoors. RPE was there. Sweat Lake was there. Lactate was there. Near vomit at end. Ended up with a Pnorm of 200.
Should I just use this baseline for the next phase? I can live with that if its the right call. Shelfed the ego back in week 3 of OS. It is what it is. If I've taken a step back, numbers wise, and I need to adjust my zones appropriately, then so be it. I'm assuming it's not uncommon to take a step back coming off of transition. I'm just a little surprised cuz I'm feeling pretty good right now. Having said that, the only way to 'work' the correct systems is to stay honest with the baseline. Thus, if I need to start using a number that's 10% lower than where I was, then I'll be happy to do that. Breaking 5hrs at Rev3 is more important to me than saving face right now.
Any thoughts?
Comments
Chris,
First it coud have been an off day for you on the test. A couple questions. Are you on the same road bike or did you switch over to a tri bike this could be a reason for the decreased watts. What's you training been like, any extra rides/runs, races adding to your overall fatigue?
You need to get outdoors and establish that FTP, do your next test outside if at all possible.
Edit
Another option is to post you 28 day power chart like this thread below. There is also a link to the wiki page posted by Al to help determine your FTP through other means.
http://members.endurancenation.us/T...fault.aspx
Gordon
Non-fitness related possible explanations for your experience:
• As Gordon says, switching from a road to a TT bike and or switching positions (upright to down in drops or on aero bars) can alter your mechanics enough to reduce the power at the same RPE.
* Higher temps at this time of year may raise your core temperature enough during the test to affect the result. A fan, testing in a "cool" garage, hydration all can help with this.
But this time of year, outside on the aerobars of your TT bike is the way to test.
would like to stay consistent on the roadie due to a May 14th big ride coming up.
I really felt like my RPE for the test was tougher than some of the 2.5-3.5 hr rides that been in Always Be Pushing mode and yielded higher numbers.
That's where I'm going with this...I'm not feeling tired or discouraged. Just thinking 'Wow, I suck at testing'. These non-testing methods of discovering FTP, as mentioned in Training & Racing with a Power Meter, might be interesting to look at. @ Gordon, I haven't checked the link, yet. Will do that in a few.
I'm just thinking I'll swallow my pride and adjust my zones down. This Saturday calls for 2x18's and if today is any indication, I won't have a choice as to whether or not I use the new (and lower) numbers.
-A fan is absolutely necessary to perform/test properly indoors (especially if it's been warming up downstairs).
-Bad tests happen - consider retesting (testing is training, training is testing).
-Definitely suggest also testing outdoors - partly for a change of scenery, partly because the number is usually higher.
And a couple questions:
-What sort of power meter? Are you doing regular calibration?
-Was that outdoor ride Pnorm of 247 for the whole 2+ hours?!? If so, your outdoor FTP was almost certainly higher than 247!
Chris,
Make sure you don't just look at yesterday's workout. Take a look at the week or following couple weeks for extra stress in workouts and in life. Craig has some other good suggestions. Don't just take the lower FTP as you don't want to give up speed by training too easy either.
Tuckers suggestion is a good one try out the 2X18 and if feeling good make it in to an test.
Gordon
@ Craig, Yes, Yes, and Yes. I'm using a Quarq, I zero it but don't recal it. I'm a little spooked that I'll mess it up. Yes, that 247 was for the duration of the ride. It was one of the first rides of the spring and I approached EN style, steady up the hills and working over and thru. It was a tough ride but I don't think it was unreasonable. And, there have been a couple of these efforts since then. It's a big discrepancy. Just know, that I'm not looking for the 'Ahhh, Chris, That's Strong Stuff, blah, blah, blah'. I'm just trying to find the desired targets for my workouts over the next several weeks. Improving specific physiological systems will happen faster if I know where this baseline is.
@ Gordon, you raise a good point. I came out of my 3 week Transition and have been going pretty hard over the last 3 weeks. Doing a good bit more than what the SC plan has been calling for. At least for the Saturdays and Sundays. Been tacking on volume for a big ride coming up in May. This could be playing a factor, but, it would be a sneaky factor cuz I really do feel fresh and strong right now. I know burned out and overtrained very well and I ain't there right now. But, maybe the legs just weren't feeling it today.
All points aside, I know I worked my ass off this morning!
In order to compare one to test to another we need to isolate as many variables as we can and keep them the same. Personally, I know I have flat vs climbing, on the tops vs hoods vs drops vs in aerobars vs in the hoods in aerobars FTP's. Now, I can't tell you exactly what they are, but know that 300w on flats in the hoods ain't 300w on the tops, 7% grade and 80rpm cadence. Now add indoors vs outdoors and everything really can get truly whack.
If the purpose of your testing is to establish a new FTP for the calc of training zones, I believe it's fine to SWAG that from time to time, or extract it from the data in WKO. By the end of April, you've all had more than enough time with your nose on the dial to know what you can and can't hold for an hour and if you estimate wrong, on the high side...fuggit. You'll just work that much harder, what's the worse that could happen? :-)
But if the purpose of your testing/data-mining exercise is to calc FTP for RACE PACING...then, yeah, you wanna get that right. That means test/data-culled from rides that are as close to race conditions as possible: outside, in the aerobars, likely mostly flat.
The skull is an amazing thing. As you can see, my head would've exploded a long time ago if the skull weren't so reliable. You should see the way I break down the menu when we go to dinner....pasta, what kind of pasta, not enough protein, go steak, takes too long to digest before tomorrow's ride, what if I add creatine to the pasta, what if I add steak to the pasta, I'll just go to Starbucks.
All the OS work and indoor attempts with no fan and ducks landing in the sweat ponds- iit all depletes you. Get your ft numbers from the bin of data you've created indoors and out- 60 min power, 30 min power. It's there. Testing, especially in a room with no fan (BIG MISTAKE FOR LONGER INTERVALS), no "rabbit" to chase, only your determination and a good playlist- it really doesn't translate to what you can really do, imho. Early season, sure, before a ton of training and a beat down of the mojo, but probably not now. And I wouldn't be so worried about the outdoor terrain- that's what np is for. Go out and ride your nuts off, chase someone. See what the pm says. To get too wrapped up in a specific ft number like it's a batting average or a golf handicap is an ego trap. It's just a range you're looking for to work from.
@Chris M -
re: Actually, you're not going strong right now. If the testing protocol is consistent, and your earlier numbers are valid, then these numbers say you're depleted. Don't fall into the trap of thinking this is in your head, swallowing your pride, lowering your number, suck at testing, etc. Let it go. You are strong, per your earlier numbers, but this test also means something. This is heretical thinking to tri folk, but you want to be stronger? TAKE A FEW DAYS OFF.
Good timing. have been going hard, and longer than scheduled over the last few weeks. Since I'm on call this weekend, I was going to go shorter and take it ez over the weekend, as a recovery weekend. Was planning on still doing the planned MS of 2x18s and 2x2.5s but cut out the extra ABP miles. Now, I may even back off on that. NEW TO POWER....as I mentioned earlier, I often go to the overtrained state, survive, and muddle thru races, BUT, this may be the first time EVER that I see a sign of 'needing a break' BEFORE the zombie state sets in. This could be a little breakthrough for me.
re: And I wouldn't be so worried about the outdoor terrain- that's what np is for. Go out and ride your nuts off
I'm gonna shoot for an outdoor test on Tuesday. Pretty good route with steady false flats and reasonable inclines. Glad to hear that about the np.
so, looks like I might need to change the title of the post, huh?
put her on the trainer and blocks to let her get comfortable. gonna put in a short/ez workout on her tonight with some accels and to see if I can stomp that Power Link to it's proper position. will rest tomorrow and then...
will do another FTP test with the new setup on Saturday, indoors. and, if I can time it right, will test outdoors in the middle of next week.
after hearing you guys, I've come to this conclusion...time to move on to the aero phase of the year.
At least the Quarq exchange is so easy that I don't have to pack away the roadie. 5 minutes of greasy hands and either bike is rolling.
Good luck bud...whatever it is, it is just a phase and you'll pull through it.
and I'll be using pnut M&M's for said purpose, of course.
^^this^^
I continually bump up against this as I create calorie deficits AND do hard, intense work. It's a balancing act, for sure, and I'm certainly feeling it today: very hard Tues, 10mi hilly run yesterday + swim, today climbed 2:20 with Sawiris and was feeling very flat. Running a 5k test tomorrow AM...should be interesting!
The key number I keep in mind is 150 ... 150 grams of carbs need to be ingested to fully replace all the glycogen your body has stored in liver and muscles, which it can easily use up in 75 minutes of hard work. That's 600 calories of carbs which have to be processed soon after a hard workout to get you ready for the next one. A little protein helps the GI and metabolic work go easier/faster. But if you don't "carb o load" within the first two hours after an intense interval or climbing session, you won't be ready for the next one.
Me, I'm barely able to keep my weight steady @ 145 # at present in my OS/IM mixture training plan, averaging about 600-650 TSS points a week (bike/run only measured). I bet there's an equation linking TSS and IF to calorie needs, I just haven't figured it out yet.
I'm a little worried if I'll be able to eat enough once I hit my 16 day old skool training camp in 3 weeks, when I'll be doing 900-950 TSS/week. It's just sleep, eat, swim, eat, ride, nap, run, eat, eat, repeat.
Anyway, resting a little today and used today's ride just to see if the bike was functional since the 'mechanic' is a rookie. 15'warmup in aero position, then 3x2.5s at 105% FTP (ACCORDING TO MY END OS TEST, LATE MARCH, ROAD SETUP), then 1x15' at z3.
SO. I don't feel like I am that far off in RPE between the road setup and the tri setup. NOW, having said that, I will be efforting an indoors test Saturday and another outdoors test mid week. I am fully aware that after the tests, there may be a more noticeable difference.
Main thing, I've finally committed to getting a fresh baseline in this aero position. Guess that means I'm moving on to the next phase of getting race ready!
I'm not a nutritionist ... we've got a great nutrition forum, where I fear to tread, as I am just a garbage eating physician who's too old to get out of his rut.
But here's what I do: first, yogurt, strawberries (cut up) and graham crackers (used to be granola, but since I messed up my mouth, I can't chew that) all mixed up: about 300 calories. Then, maybe 30-60 minutes later, a Ciabatta roll I get from Safeway bakery, heated, and eaten with olive oil and balsamic vinegar: another 300 calories. For variety, or if I need some liquids too, I'll go with chocolate milk (syrup in whole milk) or some of the "Ensure" type stuff I still have lying around from when I was on all liquids this past winter.
While I am a serial PB&J eater (one a day on dark rye with orange marmalade), there's too much fat in that to really be a good post workout carb source. Also, N.B., my BF % is only 5-6%, so I don't worry too much about going overboard on my recovery eating - I need all I can get.
Another key thing I do is make sure I'm getting enough hydration during the workout, and, if it's going longer than an hour (like a brick), I take some gel during "T2".
And I'm not holding you liable for my nutrition do's/don'ts. But, if I were comparing, looks like I might be too conservative after these long tough workouts. I'll tweak.
Thnx for the feedback.