Anyone Changed Their vDot WITHOUT Doing a Test?
I hate the testing...esp. the 5K Run test. I have been training for quite some time with a vDot of 49. But I'm holding paces that are vDot of 50 when working in Z4, Z3 and Z1. I am aware of the risks and danger. But I've been hitting these paces no problem for a while now. What do I have against the 5K Run test? I don't know, just don't want to do it. And I would think that similar cycling paradigms like Mean Max Power and Power Dist analysis should/would work for running.
Has anyone moved up their vDot based on what they've observed in training?
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good question. Interested to hear others chime in.
For me, I'm always reluctant to move up my VDOT without a test. That said, I also loathe the 5K test alone. I've started and stopped in the middle more than once.
I try to schedule my tests around local 5K's.
I have done that several times. When I start hitting the Z4 intervals fairly easily or run the Z4s as Z5s then I know it maybe time to bump up my Vdot. I also factor in how easily I am hitting the bogeys on the long run days as well. If everything is becoming a bit easier, it is time for a bump, test or no test.
I figure that, for me at least, it is better to do that rather than stay locked in on specific tests that may or may not bring out the best in me on that day.
P.S. I have followed the same process on the bike.
I often go long periods without doing a run test and will increase my paces based on my workouts, like Al said.
Yeah, I'm not talking about some flash-in-the-pan, had a good day type of thing. I'm talking about hitting better than prescribed Z4 paces with ease and with lower HR on days when my legs should be pretty trashed. And doing that week after week no problem. Having said that, one thing that has been a "revelation" for me with EN is the calculation of the Z2 pace...wow, Z2 is tougher for me and esp. on days when I am doing Long Runs.
So...I'm thinking of moving up my vDot one notch and using that for Z1, Z3 and Z4 and then maybe working Z2 more gradually over time into the new vDot.
Al - I understand the first part of your answer, but what does "run the Z4's as Z5's" mean? you mean the other way around?
Thanks
Michael, actually I meant that when the plan called for intervals at Z4 and I would do most if not all at a Z5 pace instead because the Z4 pace was not robust enough. That tells me the current Z4 pacing, called for via my current Vdot, is a bit too easy and can be a part of my rationalization that it is time to raise my Vdot, which will, in turn, raise all my zone pacing numbers.
It's a little unusual, but it works for me.
tom
I'm doing a 5k test on Friday because:
A buddy of mine will run it with me (just q'd for Boston) so I have a pacer of sorts.
The formal 5k test really exists to draw a line in the sand when you find yourself in the middle of the desert. It's there to calibrate your paces following a long layoff, or whenever you are feeling uncertain about your fitness.
If you're training with any degree of consistency, then there's no harm in incrementally bumping your paces. Ideally, this will happen when your prescribed paces are sustainable beyond their intended durations. The magnitude and frequency of your modifications will depend entirely on running history and training experience. FWIW, I typically bump mine by roughly 5 sec/mile unless I'm in a steep building curve, at which point I'll do an informal test and extrapolate.
1) The training zones are a range, not a precise number. If one is consistently popping out of those ranges, then a change in VDOT is indicated. But as long as you're bumping around within the zone, little changes in VDOT are probably meaningless.
2) For me, I never had to worry about things until this year. For my entire 12 year running career, my 5K times have been 20:12 +/- 5 sec. This was frustratingly just below a 50 VDOT, but I lived with it and it worked well. Without actually changing my VDOT, I would approach each workout and run my intervals based on RPE, see what the times were, and use that info to moderate my short term training - more rest? more work? needed.
Then, I missed 3+ months of training for the first time ever, and in the process of coming back, had a rapid increase in my RPE VDOT, like TP intervals going from 7:35 to 6:55 in the space of six weeks. I clearly couldn't be doing a test every week, so I just used my workout speeds, my recovery observations, and my built in RPE meter to gradually raise my effective VDOT during that time. It took 3 months to stabilise.
To make this work, you probably need a good history to draw from, a well honed sense of RPE, and a lot of confidence in your ability to work up to but not over your maximum capability consistently week after week in workouts. The risk is digging a hole that's hard to get out of.
Well said.
Ah, got it. that makes sense, I've done that also. Gracias.
The one bit of caution I would provide is that just because you can do the Z4 stuff in Z5 doesn't mean you should bump your vdot. make sure you can constantly overachieve in all zones from z1 to z5.
The reason I say this is some people are naturally stronger at sprinting and others at long distance. Therefore your z5 or z1 might seem too low but if the other does not I would hold off on bumping it.
When in doubt just test. If you can't suck it up and get a test done or do a race you don't deserve the bump in my book. Just my opinion though as I feel both vdot and ftp are earned, not estimated.
I will leave the vdot where it is until it's "earned" to go higher, but I will note throughout training cycles when and where it gets easier to overachieve, thus implying that the vdot is due for remeasurement, or at least that it will go up when I do.
Between races I use a combination of RPE and the target ranges established by my existing VDOT. Sometimes I overachieve z4 by quite a bit (last week I was 20 seconds better than z4 for a 4x1mile FTP run), and other times less so. I use the VDOT-derived paces as the "slowest allowable" and will grind to hit those numbers on a day when I'm just not feeling fast. But I really do not every target a faster pace...only if I'm feeling good and RPE takes me there.