30k TT as FTP test
I'm doing a 30k Time Trial this weekend...is there any way I can extract my FTP from that??
(I'm in the last week of the outseason)
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I'm doing a 30k Time Trial this weekend...is there any way I can extract my FTP from that??
(I'm in the last week of the outseason)
Comments
Bo, I bet it's going to take you 48 minutes to do this (there's a good motivator - beat my prediction!), which is 80% of an hour. I'd vote for multiplying the resulting NP by 0.98 to give you a rough and ready FTP you can use for your next training cycle leading into ROTH. Of course, you'll want a good outdoor test done a standard way to guide you on race day.
48 minutes is the target then :-) Thanks Al
It took approx. 45 minutes to do the 30k (although my Ergomo has it at only 29k) and the NP Watts for the ride was 363W !!
When trying to derive a FTP from that result, I get couple of different results.
My 20 min peak was 350W
350*0.95 would give me an FTP of 332.5
98% of the 363 gives me an FTP of 355.7
Quite a difference...Which should go for?
BTW. I use an old Ergomo, on which I have had to manually adjust the K-factor as I was told that it was showing to few watts...So the watts may not be the actual watts...so it may not be that reliable for comparison with others..
Here is the WKO screenshot... Note that I dropped my chain a few hundred yards from the finish so the last few yards have not been included in the selection..neither has the bit from the finsh to the place where I got off the bike
http://boengel1.smugmug.com/Sport/WKO-files/i-B28FvXP/0/L/30ktt-L.jpg
Any comments, ideas, feedback?
Oh, and either way, that's a sick FTP and w/kg.
I'm not that strong with WKO+ so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the VI is 1.06 and the intensity factor is 1.234 (due to the fact that the WKO set Threshold pwr is currently at 294)
Bo - awesome effort! The VI of 1.06 is still a little squiggly for a TT unless there were a lot of turns. Hills should not necessarily raise your VI, unless you are mashing up and gliding down. E.g., today outside on the road, I did my 2 x 20' effort @ VI of 1.00. No turns, but a few little "dimples".
As to your new FTP? I don't know if there is a formula. The 20' method I use is to go as hard as possible for 5', ride easy for 10', then as hard as possible for 20'. My FTP is then 0.95 of the resulting 20' NP. But I only do that indoors on a trainer. Outdoors, you want to get as close as possible to a 60 minute #, as that is the actual definitinon of FTP - as hard as you can (steadily) go for 60'.
Two thoughts on your FTP. If I had to pick a number, I would go with about 348. Why? you only went for 43 minutes, so need to take a lower percentage of your resulting NP. I just picked 96% out of the air. And, I bet if you included the final 2 minutes you left out of that WKO interval, you'd find your NP for the longer interval (including the easy stuff at the end) was right around 345-8. The reason I suggest that is it might mimic better the EN protocol of your NP for 42 minutes, including 2 x 20' hard and a 2 min easy interval.
As Tucker says, if you want to try =higher one and see if you survive= method, go for it, just make sure you don't start digging a hole and be wiling to drop the FTP a bit if it prevents you from doing the next day's workout.
Keep this up, and you'll be flirting with sub five hours at Roth?
I'm a little confused by the calculation. I get that FTP is to be 60min, but I thought that was 60min with a gun to your head. A race is close, but not there.
Per the wiki "FTP Test: we like 2 x 20' with 2' rest between each. Flat course. Create a range of that 42'. Pnorm of that range = your FTP" Since this refers to a 'flat course', I'm assuming this is outdoors, although I guess it could be a computrainer. Since Bo went for 43min, I'd call the race results good for FTP.
I'm mainly curious because I'm thinking of doing a 25k TT for my test in a couple weeks and wonder what I should use for FTP from that. It usually takes right around 40-42 min to complete and has historically been right at FTP, so I was planning on using the race results as my new FTP without any calculation.
In his blog the last few days (5-5. 5-1. 4-28 posts), Joe Friel has been discussing the difference between a solo (non-race) 30 min all out effort vs a race environment 60 minute effort as a measure of lactate threshold heart rate. While this is not strictly the same thing as FTP, it is food for thought related to the question.
Presumably a TT has a race atmosphere - there are others present, people are being sent off at specific time intervals, times are recorded with official devices by objective overseers, so there is a bit of overt and unstated social presure to perform well which is not present when riding or running all on your own. I think the "gun to the head" analogy is a metaphor Coach Rich uses to imply a race-equivilent environment when solo, but he can certainly speak for himself. Since this 25K TT/race is less than an hour of all out effort, there still needs to be a fudge factor to calculate the FTP.
Me, I try to race as if I had a gun to my head, specifically to finish feeling as if, even if someone had a gun to my head, I couldn't run another step or pedal another stroke.
That is why the easiest way for me is to just go all out on the trainer or treadmill on a test to find the threshold.
I can't do it outside partially because of my need to learn how to run down hill very fast technically. My HR will still be lower than LTHR on a steep downhill at 5 min a mile pace, no matter what I do.
Frankly Joe's blog answer really bothered me because he was condescending in his answer as he felt like he had answered the question a million times. He is a coach and should have more patience. These are the kind of questions he should be answering clearly and deliberately not belligerently.
He could have easily said do your best to push it hard and you get better at testing with experience.
If you are starting to talk about the differences between race and tongue dragging it your best being different in result you might be talking 2-3 bpm. I know that might be a lot to some people but there is probably more variability in hydration and nutrition prior to a test or race to find your LTHR, and the four keys will be more of a payoff than knowing that 2bpm in race results.
How I am being belligerent and I didn't want to - I am just a trial member who has done a lot of on your own testing.
Anyway...just some stuff I though to during my 3hr ride today...