OS Bike vs OS Run
As more and more data gets posted each week (keep it coming) folks will start to notice a difference between the Bike and Run workouts. In particular, you'll see that most folks exceed their Bike target zones but only just meet / barely make the run pace zones. This is by experience and by design...and totally intentional.
The bike is an incredible tool for crushing yourself with minimal side effects. Want to ride an hour at threshold today? Just do it...but know that a similar run effort would have you hobbled for days. So if my bike threshold is 250 watts, I can do 3 x 10' @ 258 as long as I can sustain that higher effort across the full workout...no 'flying and dying' please!
We can consistently push at or above our bike fitness because the negatives (fatigue/need for recovery/etc) pale in comparison to the positives. This is not so for the run.A large part of this is simply because running is a more demanding sport, punishing our bodies for both intense and extremely long workouts. But this is also because the system we use (Daniels' Running Formula) generates pacing zones that are, on some level, intentionally agressive.
You might think of the vDOT as a predictive tool (if I run this 5k time I will therefore run that marathon time), but that's not its strength. The system was designed so that running at the generated goal paces will automagically lead to the desired fitness. From workout perspective if my Threshold pace is 8:00 min/miles, you might find me running exactly 8:00s or maybe a bit slower...and that's okay...because overacheiving will simply "cost" to much.
Hope that helps!!!
P
Comments
Yes, it helps hugely. Thanks for reminding us of that again.
I blew it on the TP intervals Wednesday. Too fast. Is it possible to feel hungover from just one too-hard run? Coupled with everything else we do here...if you ask me this morning, I would say yes! Too many times over the years I've overdone it in terms of pace, and slipped into the black hole of counter-productiveness. Gonna stay EN smart, and stop that nonsense right now! Gotta earn that new Vdot, right?
VERY helpful! Thank you. Now will someone please help me remember this and find the thread in January when I start the OS!!! My EN 4.0 search Mojo is WEAK!!!!
Really, really super helpful!
P - can I have permission to share what you said above with a friend that bought the OS plan, but it not a member? or is that a no no?
Thx!
Thx - Oh believe me he is sold, wants to join and loving the OS plan! His wife however is not so keen on the idea
I have been wondering if there is a way to see this effect on the WKO PMC. I know that there are differences b/t bike and run but I was hoping to try and quastify that on the chart for purposes of evaluating fatigue, etc. I currently have a combined chart, a bike chart and a run chart. Is there a thought on changing the default settings for the run to better incorporate this? Dave
Excellent info. Recently I have had to do all my Tuesday workouts on Monday following the Sunday run workout. This week I felt pretty bombed and could barely hang onto Z4 on the bike after ripping the run on Sunday. So I guess I hear where you're coming from.
Patrick,
I remember reading this and think I get the jist: don't train too fast on the run as it becomes too penal and gains don't come, stick to your vDot.
If my understanding is correct and I can hold my vDot in training without much challenge, and infact hold that same vDot or 9 sec/mile better for a 10k on a Turkey Day trot/post bike trainer session with MS of 2x12', does that mean I qualified to change my vDot even though it was prior to my official testing date? I don't want to move up too quickly but also want to maximize my ROI. Thus my PITA questions.
Vince
As you said the real issue is when people increase their vdot just because the workouts get easier and they "think" they earned the new vdot. I've done this more than once and had mixed results so I'm trying to get myself to be better about relly earning my vdot by testing this year...which means it is time to decrease my vdot for a little bit even thought I have no problem hitting the zones in training.
x2 on Matt's 2nd para, slight clarification on 1st para. I recall some conflicting or perhaps unclear messages in DRF about when to bump VDOT. The last time I looked into it, I believe the summary was he says to bump VDOT any time a race showed a higher number (i.e. you earn it by proving it) - but to not do it more often than every 3 weeks.
I will bump the vDot a smidge then and watch for signs of poor recovery. Thanks for the input.
Vince
Vince,
That is in live with Daniels. He says that if you have been hitting targets for 4-6 weeks you can increase the vdot by one and see how it goes.
Great thread. Very helpful. I'll pull it back somewhat tomorrow for the 4 X 1s and approximate the Vdot. in most cases, I have been hammering out the intervals at 30 clicks faster than vDot........and probably paying for it somewhat...
SS