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"Junk" Miles/Commuting by bike and on foot

kcb203kcb203
in General Training Discussions

I live 1.5 miles from the pool, and 6.5 miles from work.  I want to do more running to the pool and back, and biking to/from work, but am not sure whether it helps my training or tires me out for my key workouts.

For the bike commutes, I'll sometimes stretch it out to 60 or 90 minutes and get in a full workout.  But on the actual commute, there's no way to put in a consistent hard effort due to traffic and stoplights over the 23-24 minutes it takes..  Is it worth it to push hard and make it a fartlek type of workout twice a day, or should I just suck it up and drive when I don't need a longer bike workout?  I do run home from work once a week to save time on a run.

It makes more sense to run to the pool--I get an extra easy three miles of running, and it takes 12 minutes to run vs. 7 minutes to drive, so I'm not wasting any time.

Any thoughts?

Comments

  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak

    Keith,

    I am not sure where I stand on this one.  First if you are getting workouts in by commuting then definitely keep it up it's better than no workout.  The 24 minutes makes for a long warm up or a good time to do z5 stuff, but there if traffic.  My problem with commuting is that I don't use my tri bike and have no power.  If you use power and are getting in a 60-90 minute ride on PE you might be missing out depening on how dialed in to PE you are. 

    For the runs to the pool, extra stuff can burn you out, unless you are extending this to get a full run workout in I'd probably just ride my bike easy if you don't want to drive.  

    The commuting and running is great for getting your fitness to a certain point it, but it can create issues in getting the most from your focused workouts.  

    Gordon

  • kolpsterkolpster
    Bike/run commuting is what got me interested in the tri over the past few years. As I've gotten more serious about training, I've found that the bike miles are kinda 'junky' a take up time that might be better spent elsewhere. Running to work still pretty much works.
  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

    I live 10 mi from work. I commuted by bike 2-3 x a week from 96-2010. As said above, it was great for general fitness, but once I started doing things like FTP, VO2 max, and steady state bike workouts, there was no way the traffic and need for safety allowed by to use the commute as a workout. And it would start to get in the way of swims (the pool is on the way to work). I came to see the commute as fun time, not work time, and would do things like bike to the pool on the way home, or bike to the track for a run workout.

    So, to me, bike commuting is a lifestyle choice, not a part of the training plan.

    This season, due to PTSD from my accident and mainly excess rainy day, I'm not bke commuting - we'll see come June 26 @ CDA if it makes a difference.

    Sometimes I would run to work (or even home, leaving my car there, to bike in the next AM) on weekends, just so Icould get a workout in that day, 'cause once at work on a Sat or Sun, I'm tied up for the next 24 hours. That worked fine, but it took a lot of pre-planning with clothing and car/bike for going the opposite way. I also don't do that anymore, choosing to do an interval workout at a college track on the way to work Sat or Sun AM.

    As to the "junkiness" of a 1.5 mile jog to and from the pool - I say, go for it. That short a distance won't impact your other workotus, and probably will ever so slightly improve your general run fitness - not make you fastger, but make you feel more comfortable as a runner.

  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    I used to be a very regular bike commuter (year-round in Chicago), 4.5 miles each way.
    Based on my city commute, I cannot turn it into a workout...even though I make it into VO2 max efforts between stoplights...
    The advice I received...and I agree with it... is to commute as long as the commute does not impact your ability to complete the workouts.
    So now my schedule is that I will commute only if I do not plan to do a run or bike workout later that day. The only exception is if I'm going to do a lunchtime run.
    For example, this evening I plan to do a 60min bike with 3x15min FTP intervals, followed by a brick run. So no commute.
  • steveperxsteveperx

     I commute by bicycle 40 miles each way on Fridays between Memorial Day and Labor Day, because we have "summer hours" that give us half days on Fridays during that time period, and I just enjoy doing it.  With a short commute like yours, I would use it as supplemental "junk miles" but do it VERY easy (both the runs and the bikes).  Will it help?  I don't know, but I don't think it'll hurt as long as you take it easy.  I would ONLY do this supplemental type exercise if you enjoy it, and WANT to do it.  I would not try to replace EN workouts.

  • chris malonechris malone
    I think anytime you can spend on the bike is good time. I wouldn't try to make the bike commute about fitness, just the spinning of the legs in between your real bike workouts is beneficial. And it gives you opportunities to improve critical bike handling skills like popping wheelies and riding no hands when the ladeez are watching.
  • kcb203kcb203
    Thanks for all the comments. One advantage of having my bike at work is the opportunity for two awesome lunchtime workouts. Every weekday at noon near the Jefferson Memorial in DC, there's an informal crit. 5 days a week year round, with some Cat 1 and Cat 2 riders. I can usually hang for a lap or two of the three mile course before I'm blown out the back. But it makes for an awesome FTP building workout. And the best place to ride uninterrupted is the C&O Canal Towpath. Over 180 miles of gravel without cross streets. I can put a cross tire on the PowerTap wheel and do uninterrupted intervals to my heart's content on my cross bike, which is hard to find in the DC area.

    I think I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Bike commute ~3 days a week easy, and try to get in one or two of my hard workouts for the week either at lunch or on the way home.
  • Paul HoughPaul Hough
    Keith - I come from a running background so I won't comment on your biking question. As to running, I fall squarely in the camp that believes there is no such thing as junk miles. Most triathletes run far too little which is why they suck so bad when it comes to the run. When I started doing triathlons, I joked how it was mostly swim - bike - walk. Folks hammer the first two events and then "LET THE WALK BEGIN"...probably more true in Ironman than other distance. The following piece has some really good thoughts on this topic (http://www.hillrunner.com/articles/article.php/junk_miles_myth).

    The Junk Miles Myth
    No matter where a runner looks, you can't seem to get away from the term "junk miles". Don't run too much on your easy days, you'll be running junk miles. Don't go that far on your cooldown, that's just junk miles. Don't do that extra run, that's just junk miles. So, what exactly are junk miles and why are they so bad?

    In my opinion, the term "junk miles" is the most overused term in running. Most people will use the term to describe any amount of miles that may leave you a little tired for a workout.

    So, here is my definition of "junk miles": If you are doing so many miles that you can't get in your speed workouts at a time when your speed workouts should be the focus, you are running junk miles. Of course, this is a pretty complex definition, so I better explain further.

    During base training, when you are not running hard workouts or at the very least are not focusing on the hard workouts, is there such a thing as junk miles? As long as you are keeping yourself healthy, I argue no.

    What about in the final couple of months of your training (few months, whenever your focus shifts), when your focus becomes the hard workouts? I think the best way to explain this is to use an example. Let's say you have 4 mile repeats on the plan for Tuesday and 8x800 on the plan for Thursday. Your target paces are 5:20 and 2:30 (just using rough estimates of what my paces would be). You run your 5:20 miles on Tuesday, do 5 miles on Wednesday, then come back with your 2:30 800s on Thursday. Obviously, no junk miles there. Now, let's say you are running higher miles. You end up doing 5:25 miles on Tuesday because you are a little fatigued after your 10 miles Monday, you do 10 miles Wednesday, then do the 800s in 2:32. Are the 10 mile runs on your easy days junk miles? Some people would say yes but I say no. If you are still getting the whole workout in at the goal intensity, hitting the exact paces isn't crucial. Your body doesn't even know it's running 5:25 and 2:32 instead of 5:20 and 2:30, it just knows it's running at the intensity that you wanted to run at in the first place. You are still getting in the desired training effect, plus you are building significantly more strength on the easy days, which will help you greatly on race day. However, let's say you step it up another notch. You do your miles Tuesday but only get through 3 of them because you are so tired. You then do 15 miles on Wednesday, then only get through 5x800 on Thursday because you are again still tired. Are you now running junk miles? The obvious answer seems to be yes. My answer is maybe. If you are in a phase where building your aerobic strength is still most important, as it would be for quite some time if training for a longer race like a marathon, no. However, if you are in the final race preparation phase or the peaking phase, yes you have.

    So, there is my term of junk miles. If you are doing so many miles that you can't get in your speed workouts at a time when your speed workouts should be the focus, you are running junk miles. However, doing the workouts a little slower than planned because you are a little tired doesn't mean anything. As long as you get the whole workout in at the desired effort.

    Now that I went through this whole explanation, I'm going to throw a wrench in it. In most cases where I see people not getting through workouts, it's not because they are running too many miles on their easy days. It's because they are running too fast on their easy days, what you might call junk pace. There is no harm in running your easy days very slow. You will still build the aerobic systems that the aerobic runs are designed to build and you will recover more. In fact, the longer you are out there, the more work your body will do to build those aerobic systems. So, in many ways, an 80 minute run at 10 minutes per mile can be better than a 40 minute run at 8 minutes per mile.

  • mgraffeomgraffeo
    Paul, the spirit of your comment is right on, that the more you do something, the better you are likely to become at it. However, i think that the article referenced is steeped in a classic 'first, build your base, then you're allowed to do some speed' approach, which doesn't really jive with the constant ROI approach of these plans, so I don't get much from that as far as supporting your point.

    In EN, I'd say that junk miles are anything you're doing that's not hard enough to induce go-faster adaptations (ie. at least Z3), but that has a recovery cost such that you're tired/unable to recover/unable to hit the paces. So, if you're bike commuting, and still able to get your workouts done, and not falling asleep on the couch when you're supposed to be doing the dishes, then you're probably not doing junk miles.
  • Paul HoughPaul Hough
    Mike - I get the whole ROI thing...and I admit up front that I'm looking for the point of vanishing marginal returns instead of merely diminishing marginal returns. However, with ROI as a given and the whole debate boiling down to simply do I run to the pool or drive to the pool...I say run whether it's Z1, Z2 or Z3. For IM, a lot of people don't even have the adaptation to go the distance let alone go faster. The typical triathlete rationalization is that you get your endurance fitness on the bike so you don't need to run as much...yeah right. And their running results speak volumes. Obviously, age group triathletes don't have the time to train like a runner and still get in the swim and bike workouts, but more running is almost always better, especially when it comes to IM distance, assuming the individual can handle the volume. And as to running injuries, speed not distance is a much greater risk factor for getting hurt.
  • mgraffeomgraffeo
    Paul, I don't disagree with you, but I also don't think that anyone following an EN plan falls in the category of "typical AG athlete who doesn't have the adaptation to go the distance", so let's tailor our advice to the audience.

    Folks following an EN IM plan categorically do NOT need to add any volume running to run a successful IM marathon. Hell, I ran only about half of it, and still ran the whole thing, albeit slower than I'd have liked if I'd actually executed the training.

    Folks out there in the world who are not running frequently are likely to benefit from increasing the frequency, and if the way to increase the frequency is to run to the pool, then great. Just not sure it's applicable to most folks here, in an IM plan that's already calling for 4-5 runs per week.
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