@John, you'll use different muscles all over your body, I've found. My arms, neck and shoulders usually hurt more after roadie riding. You use more of your leg muscles with the roadie too, versus the tri bike. Remember that tri folks have to get off and run! The tri geometry creates more focus on the quads than the roadie. I can easily put out 20-30% more watts on the roadie, especially up hills! That leads to increased IFs, obviously.
When I ride a lot, with a good group, I have a tendency these days to put my hands, neutral positioned, on the top of the handlebars. With a good group, you're not needing the brakes as much - especially if you're on the front. It's less stressful for me to do that.
Being in the drops, at least for me, is like being in aero position, except it puts MORE stress on the upper back, neck, shoulders and arms because you're not resting on the elbow pads. Just takes some getting used to.
First off, the bike looks great and 13lbs is pretty impressive.
I also rode on a tribike first before a road bike and at first thought the road bike was less comfortable. I was used to having all my weight on my upper body like on a tribike and therefore I was riding very far forward on the saddle and with a ton of weight on my arms, making them sore like you described. To make things worse my elbows were locked which seemed more comfortable but in the end was just making things worse.
Once I got used to having more weight on the saddle, sitting further back, and leaving my elbows/arms nice and loose and relaxed I was instantly more comfortable.
Matt and Scott - Thanks. Makes total sense. More weight on the seat and less on the arms. Plus, I gotta tell ya, several times I started dropping to aero position simply out of habit.
In regards to my position on the seat, I found today that if my cadence goes above 95 and I am on the back of the seat I get a slight ass bounce going on (FYI - My normal FT interval cadence is between 95 and 100). So I moved forward to the middle of the seat and the bouncing went away. It is the saddle that is flexing, not the seat post as we tested this when I was test riding the bikes. But wasn't sure what it would be like on a long ride.
So . . . . if i need to be farther back on the saddle it looks like I need a different, more rigid saddle? What is on it now is a Bontrager Affinity 2, hollow chromoly rails.
First, you are way too HAPPY John. Please work on your 1,000yard stare and smile at no one. You are hard are work and you can't be bothered.
Never tell a roadie you are a triathlete. Just say you are a new rider. They understand new riders because they were all one...they don't understand triathletes.
Do not takes Rich's advice on socks. He wears joanne pink ankle socks. Not only is that distracting it burns the eyes so please go out right now and buy tall socks. Color doesn't matter as long as they coordinate. 5inch minimum.
Loose the tri-shoes. Sidi roads shoes are best preferably white but other brands will do as long as their white.
No bag on back. Carry all food and repair kit in rear pockets.
Not only does the kit have to match it has to be clean and in good condition. No tri gear- period. and Under NO circumstances may you ever been seen wearing a pro kit. This is not basketball or football. Cyclist don't wear pro jerseys. Your best best is to go to a shop and buy there team kit. I know you are in NoCal but if you were in SoCal i'd go buy a Helens kit http://helenscycles.com/product-list/helens-custom-clothing-pg144/ maybe too. They have great style. I may buy anyway
Nice choice on the bike. I have a Madone so I totally approve. However there is WAY too much black on that bike and you need to flip the stem and drop a spacer or 2 it may be uncomfortable but you can look like you are riding a stock bike.
Other important details:
When you put your sunglasses on the always go OVER the helmet straps. Inside the helment strap = fred.
When NOT wearing sunglass slide them into your vent hole on the front of your helmet preferably upside down.
Forget Dan and his Sidi's. Specialized road shoes, in white with red trim. Crazy light, vented, white, red trim, two dial adjusters so you can get them just right, white, and they are white.
Thousand yard stare, yes.
Thankfully, now that I'm on the tri bike, I can get away with my road kit, slick dancin' shoes...and low socks. Very soon will be no socks (sorry, Danno, gotta prepare to piss in my fancypants shoes). But I'll go with the tall socks once I'm back on the road bike. Yes, Helen's makes good kit but around here there are shops, clubs, street gangs all wearing their own kit. Rather than get a cap in my ass I'll just ride in EN kit as much as possible
Thanks, Dan. I have a complete bike fit tomorrow morning and flipping the stem is already on the list of things to do.
Couple of follow-up questions:
- Why can't I wear the sunglasses under the strap? More comfortable that way. for me
- Can I wear black bib shorts and an EN or local club jersey? I know Rich said solid jersey, but . . . . .
- I have red sidewall Michelin tires and can put red bar tape on the bars. Looks nice on my tri bike and matches my EN and local club kit nicely. But is red OK on a road bike? I could go with white sidewall tires and bars tape but the LBS said white bar tape is too hard to keep clean. Do you have other thoughts?
- Thoughts on a seat with stiffer rails (see comments below about bouncing in the seat).
Why can't I wear the sunglasses under the strap? More comfortable that way. for me
It's not about comfort it's about looking "pro". Looking at cyclingnews, or velonews. You won't see a single rider in the pro peloton wearing their glasses on the inside of the straps. For me it makes my helmet fit better with the straps fitting closer to my face.
- Yes, white tape is hard to keep clean but life is hard as a pro.
- How about you keep the black bar tape but get red Hudz instead. That would be nice highlight without jeopardzing your Pro status.
Saddle (not seat). Very specific to your body. I ride a Fizik Arione and it's perfect. I rode a double century last weekend on it and I had no saddle issues in the 11.5 hours of riding. I do know that Rich bought the same saddle and hated it. oohh but get one with red highlights and you are looking good.
- All black bibs are fine but if they say Capo/Assos that's just a little cooler.
All kidding aside: You have a great ride and no matter how you or your bike looks it doesn't matter. This is all in fun.
Remember you are a triathlete. Sunglasses under the helmet strap = quick transition. Try taking your helmet off with the sunglasses on the outside of your helmet straps and you'll remember why you put them inside the straps.
Love the bike John, wicked sharp - you are going to have a blast. Red tape on the bike looks like it would jump out, maybe not in a good way. You don't want to distract from the gorgeous bike. White could work though, if you are a type A neat person you can likely stay on top of it.
I was hoping Assos bibs might be an exception to the non-kit rule - you can pry my Lady FI 13 bibs out of my cold dead hands. Oh and white SIDIs for sure- I still feel cool when I put those on, three years later.
I am having a hard time transitioning into tri-dom this year. Loving the roadie vibe, and the bike just looks so much cleaner without all the bags, bottles etc.
Oh and watch the Giro (universal NBC) if you are not doing so already, makes you want to ride, ride, ride.
Remember you are a triathlete. Sunglasses under the helmet strap = quick transition. Try taking your helmet off with the sunglasses on the outside of your helmet straps and you'll remember why you put them inside the straps.
This isn't about common sense, it's about style. One should never confuse the two. Style shall have priority over commonsense, at all times, while on the road bike.
This isn't about common sense, it's about style. One should never confuse the two. Style shall have priority over commonsense, at all times, while on the road bike
Exactly
John: The riding is the easy part - just ride a lot. Being a single sport athlete is great...in my former life I'd be at the pool right turning laps instead I'm drinking espresso and waiting for the sun to come up before I ride.
I'm knocking down Peets Arabian on the porch, sun is rising, and I don't smell of chlorine. I smell of Ax and superiority.
Throwing a leg over (riding) later. Gonna pull on my Helen's kit with the Cal bear on it so people will say hey, you from Cal? and then I can say, um no, and just sort of stare over their shoulder. If I encounter another rider, I'm going to sit up and reach with both hands behind me into my jersey to pretend to pull out much needed nutrition. I may or may not acknowledge them. It depends upon their kit, cadence, and if I can smell enough smugness. (I can process all of this in about 20 yards.) If so, I'll give them a chin raise. If it's a female triathlete, big smile and wave so she knows I'm not one of them. At stop lights I'll bike stand. At long lights I'll sit on my top tube staring at my hands like Hamlet on wheels. If a strong group comes along and I can't hang with them, I'll feign a mechanical. It's getting hot here in Va so I'm now very religious, though I'm riding all day Sunday. My St Chris medal will dangle from my neck on climbs.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a waxing appointment.
This isn't about common sense, it's about style. One should never confuse the two. Style shall have priority over commonsense, at all times, while on the road bike
Exactly
John: The riding is the easy part - just ride a lot. Being a single sport athlete is great...in my former life I'd be at the pool right turning laps instead I'm drinking espresso and waiting for the sun to come up before I ride.
Haha, I thought about this thread as I went out for my long run yesterday and looked down at my bright red shoes, pink and purple knee high socks, electric blue shorts, bright purple under armour long sleeve, and gray and green overshirt. Just confirms that I'll always be a runner and never be a roadie
I was hoping Assos bibs might be an exception to the non-kit rule - you can pry my Lady FI 13 bibs out of my cold dead hands. Oh and white SIDIs for sure- I still feel cool when I put those on, three years later.
Aimee- I personally think Chicks should get a pass on the "no black shorts" rule. Every team kit I've ever tried to order has failed with regards to getting matching cycling shorts 'cause there aren't enough orders to make the min quatnity.
I think if you could pull it off have a car following you with hazards on, and every now and then they can pull aside you and hand you nutrition and drinks.
OK, this is my last vanity play. Here is my bike after 2.5 hours at the LBS today getting fit. We:
- Raised the saddle height
- Got a shorter stem (100 to 90) and flipped it flat.
- Moved the saddle back.
- Moved the nose of the seat down a tad - Hoping this will help with bounce at high cadence
All minor stuff.
And I guess the scale I used to weigh my bike was a bit generous. We did an official weigh of the bike (this time with the PT on, etc.) and it weighs in at 17.1 lbs. Not too bad for a 60 cm frame size bike.
Also, in case you guys aren't aware, I have a handicapped left arm. This means I can not brake or shift with my left hand. But I can ride and maneuver just fine. So we installed:
- A cable doubler (http://tinyurl.com/3kca4lg) - Mostly used on tandem bikes, I now have the ability to use my right hand brake and it will brake both the front and back wheels. Worked great yesterday and we did some adjustments today so the rear brake engages a tad before the front brake does.
- A Dura-Ace friction bar end shifter on the left drop. This gives me the ability to shift between the big and small chain rings. We did some test rides with the positioning today and it is seamless.
Now, just need to find white bike tires and order the white Hudz and we will be golden.
I'm three weeks out from my HIM and I am going out on my road bike tomorrow with the boys. Why? Because it's fun! I had a very high honor paid to me a few weeks ago. One of the cyclists in the group broke his line on a descent and came towards me. He said he was avoiding this other guy who was a triathlete. He said you know how they can be. I have assimilated!
Back on the tri bike on Sunday for some steady ABP. Nose to the power meter.
Did the tour of local bike shops this afternoon. No Capo's anywhere, but got new gloves (they match the bike), white and black arm warmers. And after trying on different styles of both Sidi and Specialized road shoes, I decided the shoes below. Can't afford the Strauss level of shoes, but they are close. Any idea who the hell to keep 'em clean?
Also, rode last night with a pseudo-roadie friend and did 90 minutes at .941. Gotta learn and practice attacking a hill. Who knew you were supposed to get out of the saddle.
Hey John - you're making me go wash my shoes (well, actually only the left one) now?
Here's what it looked like after a few days of riding over roads wet with melting snow:
And here's what 60 seconds of soap, water and a wash cloth did:
Sigh. I suppose these means I'll have to go wash the right one, and maybe even my bike, which is getting pretty crusty at this point. I like my epquipment to look a little gnarly; from my days as a mountain biker and back country skier, I think.
The get out of the saddle thing when climbing is cool looking and feels good (which for this discussion is important) but high cadence and a good stroke without the Alberto/Lance throw the bike around routine is generally faster, unless, of course you're AC or Lance.....
On the issue of suitable shoes, a friend of mine joined our ride yesterday with these tri shoes from the Specialized, the counterpart to my road shoes which I like so much. I had been considering riding and racing tri's in my road shoes, but they are sized for riding with socks and I was concerned about fit. Looks like these shoes will fit the bill so I plan to pick up a pair.
Note that he was riding tri shoes on his road bike, with no socks, but he's training for IMCDA and brought the roadie because it was a 9k climbing day. We decided to give him a waiver but required him to ride in the back where we couldn't see the offending shoes...
@Rich - I tried those on at the local LBS. They are VERY nice. I would consider them myself.
@Chris - Thanks. Practiced smooth, non-jerky, ouuta the saddle climbing today. Definitely an art.
Also, I posted on Facebook that I rode 101 kilometers @ .827 IF today. Is kilometers a little too over the top? Cuz I am getting crap about it. But I read that roadies talk in km.
And I LOVE my bike. Amazed at how much fun I am having.
Comments
When I ride a lot, with a good group, I have a tendency these days to put my hands, neutral positioned, on the top of the handlebars. With a good group, you're not needing the brakes as much - especially if you're on the front. It's less stressful for me to do that.
Being in the drops, at least for me, is like being in aero position, except it puts MORE stress on the upper back, neck, shoulders and arms because you're not resting on the elbow pads. Just takes some getting used to.
I also rode on a tribike first before a road bike and at first thought the road bike was less comfortable. I was used to having all my weight on my upper body like on a tribike and therefore I was riding very far forward on the saddle and with a ton of weight on my arms, making them sore like you described. To make things worse my elbows were locked which seemed more comfortable but in the end was just making things worse.
Once I got used to having more weight on the saddle, sitting further back, and leaving my elbows/arms nice and loose and relaxed I was instantly more comfortable.
Matt and Scott - Thanks. Makes total sense. More weight on the seat and less on the arms. Plus, I gotta tell ya, several times I started dropping to aero position simply out of habit.
In regards to my position on the seat, I found today that if my cadence goes above 95 and I am on the back of the seat I get a slight ass bounce going on (FYI - My normal FT interval cadence is between 95 and 100). So I moved forward to the middle of the seat and the bouncing went away. It is the saddle that is flexing, not the seat post as we tested this when I was test riding the bikes. But wasn't sure what it would be like on a long ride.
So . . . . if i need to be farther back on the saddle it looks like I need a different, more rigid saddle? What is on it now is a Bontrager Affinity 2, hollow chromoly rails.
John
finally something i can contribute too...
so please go out right now and buy tall socks. Color doesn't matter as long as they coordinate. 5inch minimum.
it may be uncomfortable but you can look like you are riding a stock bike.
First, you are way too HAPPY John. Please work on your 1,000yard stare and smile at no one. You are hard are work and you can't be bothered.
Never tell a roadie you are a triathlete. Just say you are a new rider. They understand new riders because they were all one...they don't understand triathletes.
Do not takes Rich's advice on socks. He wears joanne pink ankle socks. Not only is that distracting it burns the eyes
Loose the tri-shoes. Sidi roads shoes are best preferably white but other brands will do as long as their white.
No bag on back. Carry all food and repair kit in rear pockets.
Not only does the kit have to match it has to be clean and in good condition. No tri gear- period. and Under NO circumstances may you ever been seen wearing a pro kit. This is not basketball or football. Cyclist don't wear pro jerseys. Your best best is to go to a shop and buy there team kit. I know you are in NoCal but if you were in SoCal i'd go buy a Helens kit http://helenscycles.com/product-list/helens-custom-clothing-pg144/ maybe too. They have great style. I may buy anyway
Nice choice on the bike. I have a Madone so I totally approve. However there is WAY too much black on that bike and you need to flip the stem and drop a spacer or 2
Other important details:
When you put your sunglasses on the always go OVER the helmet straps. Inside the helment strap = fred.
When NOT wearing sunglass slide them into your vent hole on the front of your helmet preferably upside down.
I'm sure there's more...
Forget Dan and his Sidi's. Specialized road shoes, in white with red trim. Crazy light, vented, white, red trim, two dial adjusters so you can get them just right, white, and they are white.
Thousand yard stare, yes.
Thankfully, now that I'm on the tri bike, I can get away with my road kit, slick dancin' shoes...and low socks. Very soon will be no socks (sorry, Danno, gotta prepare to piss in my fancypants shoes). But I'll go with the tall socks once I'm back on the road bike. Yes, Helen's makes good kit but around here there are shops, clubs, street gangs all wearing their own kit. Rather than get a cap in my ass I'll just ride in EN kit as much as possible
Couple of follow-up questions:
- Why can't I wear the sunglasses under the strap? More comfortable that way. for me
- Can I wear black bib shorts and an EN or local club jersey? I know Rich said solid jersey, but . . . . .
- I have red sidewall Michelin tires and can put red bar tape on the bars. Looks nice on my tri bike and matches my EN and local club kit nicely. But is red OK on a road bike? I could go with white sidewall tires and bars tape but the LBS said white bar tape is too hard to keep clean. Do you have other thoughts?
- Thoughts on a seat with stiffer rails (see comments below about bouncing in the seat).
Thanks,
John
Why can't I wear the sunglasses under the strap? More comfortable that way. for me
It's not about comfort it's about looking "pro". Looking at cyclingnews, or velonews. You won't see a single rider in the pro peloton wearing their glasses on the inside of the straps. For me it makes my helmet fit better with the straps fitting closer to my face.
- Yes, white tape is hard to keep clean but life is hard as a pro.
- How about you keep the black bar tape but get red Hudz instead. That would be nice highlight without jeopardzing your Pro status.
Saddle (not seat). Very specific to your body. I ride a Fizik Arione and it's perfect. I rode a double century last weekend on it and I had no saddle issues in the 11.5 hours of riding. I do know that Rich bought the same saddle and hated it. oohh but get one with red highlights and you are looking good.
- All black bibs are fine but if they say Capo/Assos that's just a little cooler.
All kidding aside: You have a great ride and no matter how you or your bike looks it doesn't matter. This is all in fun.
Love the bike John, wicked sharp - you are going to have a blast. Red tape on the bike looks like it would jump out, maybe not in a good way. You don't want to distract from the gorgeous bike. White could work though, if you are a type A neat person you can likely stay on top of it.
I was hoping Assos bibs might be an exception to the non-kit rule
- you can pry my Lady FI 13 bibs out of my cold dead hands. Oh and white SIDIs for sure- I still feel cool when I put those on, three years later.
I am having a hard time transitioning into tri-dom this year. Loving the roadie vibe, and the bike just looks so much cleaner without all the bags, bottles etc.
Oh and watch the Giro (universal NBC) if you are not doing so already, makes you want to ride, ride, ride.
Dan: Thanks SSOOO much. I will have actual questions about cycling as I ride more, but looking as "pro" as possible is important, I guess.
Now a question for the group . . . .
Below is a pic of my tri bike with red sidewall tires and red bar tape. And another with the same tires but on the new Trek.
Note they are the same DT Swiss wheels in each with a touch of red in the decals.
So . . . .should I keep the red tires and get red Hudz? Or go white tires and white Hudz?
This isn't about common sense, it's about style. One should never confuse the two. Style shall have priority over commonsense, at all times, while on the road bike.
Exactly
John: The riding is the easy part - just ride a lot. Being a single sport athlete is great...in my former life I'd be at the pool right turning laps instead I'm drinking espresso and waiting for the sun to come up before I ride.
I'm knocking down Peets Arabian on the porch, sun is rising, and I don't smell of chlorine. I smell of Ax and superiority.
Throwing a leg over (riding) later. Gonna pull on my Helen's kit with the Cal bear on it so people will say hey, you from Cal? and then I can say, um no, and just sort of stare over their shoulder. If I encounter another rider, I'm going to sit up and reach with both hands behind me into my jersey to pretend to pull out much needed nutrition. I may or may not acknowledge them. It depends upon their kit, cadence, and if I can smell enough smugness. (I can process all of this in about 20 yards.) If so, I'll give them a chin raise. If it's a female triathlete, big smile and wave so she knows I'm not one of them. At stop lights I'll bike stand. At long lights I'll sit on my top tube staring at my hands like Hamlet on wheels. If a strong group comes along and I can't hang with them, I'll feign a mechanical. It's getting hot here in Va so I'm now very religious, though I'm riding all day Sunday. My St Chris medal will dangle from my neck on climbs.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a waxing appointment.
Haha, I thought about this thread as I went out for my long run yesterday and looked down at my bright red shoes, pink and purple knee high socks, electric blue shorts, bright purple under armour long sleeve, and gray and green overshirt. Just confirms that I'll always be a runner and never be a roadie
Aimee- I personally think Chicks should get a pass on the "no black shorts" rule. Every team kit I've ever tried to order has failed with regards to getting matching cycling shorts 'cause there aren't enough orders to make the min quatnity.
I think if you could pull it off have a car following you with hazards on, and every now and then they can pull aside you and hand you nutrition and drinks.
OK, this is my last vanity play. Here is my bike after 2.5 hours at the LBS today getting fit. We:
- Raised the saddle height
- Got a shorter stem (100 to 90) and flipped it flat.
- Moved the saddle back.
- Moved the nose of the seat down a tad - Hoping this will help with bounce at high cadence
All minor stuff.
And I guess the scale I used to weigh my bike was a bit generous. We did an official weigh of the bike (this time with the PT on, etc.) and it weighs in at 17.1 lbs. Not too bad for a 60 cm frame size bike.
Also, in case you guys aren't aware, I have a handicapped left arm. This means I can not brake or shift with my left hand. But I can ride and maneuver just fine. So we installed:
- A cable doubler (http://tinyurl.com/3kca4lg) - Mostly used on tandem bikes, I now have the ability to use my right hand brake and it will brake both the front and back wheels. Worked great yesterday and we did some adjustments today so the rear brake engages a tad before the front brake does.
- A Dura-Ace friction bar end shifter on the left drop. This gives me the ability to shift between the big and small chain rings. We did some test rides with the positioning today and it is seamless.
Now, just need to find white bike tires and order the white Hudz and we will be golden.
Time stop talking and start riding
Thanks everyone.
Post of the year.
I'm three weeks out from my HIM and I am going out on my road bike tomorrow with the boys. Why? Because it's fun! I had a very high honor paid to me a few weeks ago. One of the cyclists in the group broke his line on a descent and came towards me. He said he was avoiding this other guy who was a triathlete. He said you know how they can be. I have assimilated!
Back on the tri bike on Sunday for some steady ABP. Nose to the power meter.
Did the tour of local bike shops this afternoon. No Capo's anywhere, but got new gloves (they match the bike), white and black arm warmers. And after trying on different styles of both Sidi and Specialized road shoes, I decided the shoes below. Can't afford the Strauss level of shoes, but they are close. Any idea who the hell to keep 'em clean?
Also, rode last night with a pseudo-roadie friend and did 90 minutes at .941. Gotta learn and practice attacking a hill. Who knew you were supposed to get out of the saddle.
Hey John - you're making me go wash my shoes (well, actually only the left one) now?
Here's what it looked like after a few days of riding over roads wet with melting snow:
And here's what 60 seconds of soap, water and a wash cloth did:
Sigh. I suppose these means I'll have to go wash the right one, and maybe even my bike, which is getting pretty crusty at this point. I like my epquipment to look a little gnarly; from my days as a mountain biker and back country skier, I think.
Al - Nice. Probably need to go clean the other one or Socie/Strauss will come kick you in the nutz.
What do you use to clean your shoes? Anything special I need to know?
On the issue of suitable shoes, a friend of mine joined our ride yesterday with these tri shoes from the Specialized, the counterpart to my road shoes which I like so much. I had been considering riding and racing tri's in my road shoes, but they are sized for riding with socks and I was concerned about fit. Looks like these shoes will fit the bill so I plan to pick up a pair.
Note that he was riding tri shoes on his road bike, with no socks, but he's training for IMCDA and brought the roadie because it was a 9k climbing day. We decided to give him a waiver but required him to ride in the back where we couldn't see the offending shoes...
@Rich - I tried those on at the local LBS. They are VERY nice. I would consider them myself.
@Chris - Thanks. Practiced smooth, non-jerky, ouuta the saddle climbing today. Definitely an art.
Also, I posted on Facebook that I rode 101 kilometers @ .827 IF today. Is kilometers a little too over the top?
Cuz I am getting crap about it. 
But I read that roadies talk in km.
And I LOVE my bike. Amazed at how much fun I am having.