Not WSM but I believe that per the 4 keys talk and HIM/IM guidance that swim pacing for race is go only as fast as you can maintain form. Stay in your box focus on form and count strokes. Nothing more nothing less.
Also to paraphrase the coaches- The swim is just the price of admission to get to the bike, which leads to the run where the race really starts at mile 18.
From a tactical pace perspective – start slow and build. Just like the other 2 legs of the race. Going out to hard in the first 15 min can have a major non positive impact on your race.
For me this wound up being about T-pace +2 seconds. Started a tad too fast (first 500 in 8:12 and T-pace would be 8:20) and faded by 1-3 seconds each 500 after that. Last 200 was around 1:44 pace (so +4).
The question I have then is what about sprinting (or going harder than Threshold) for the first 200-300 meters to free yourself from the insanity and/or get better position and then settling into an easier pace for the first loop?
So the question is: Does that 200-300 meters of going hard cost a lot in terms of energy wasted AND is the payoff worth it?
Jim, I have thought a bunch about the risks and benefits of going hard at the beginning, talked to some swim coaches, and experimented with it. Here are my $ .02
(1) A lot of people do this, which takes away from the benefit. You might wind up wasting energy fighting in that first 3-4 minutes only to wind up exactly where you would be if you had swum steady.
(2) It depends on how fast you can swim easy and how fast you can sprint. If "sprinting" will only add 1-2 seconds per 100, it's not worth the effort, especially if you are swimming more than 60 minutes for a full -- between 60 minutes and 90 minutes it is just going to be crowded.
(3) All-out sprinting is almost always a really bad idea. By "sprinting" I mean going 5-10 seconds per hundred faster than your expected average pace for 3-4 minutes. Going faster than that will almost certainly put you deeply anaerobic and cost you. If 5-10 seconds per hundred won't be enough, don't do it. I have tried all-out sprinting for only 50-100 meters, and paid a steep price at the back end of the swim, and more on the bike and run.
(4) It depends on where the turn buoys are. The farther out the first turn is, the less benefit there is because the pack will naturally thin out. If the first turn is 200-400 meters out, you will make up a lot of time by going fast early because you will wind up treading water around the buoy (watch an ITU swim video to see this in action). If it's 600 meters or more, the buoy turns aren't nearly as slow.
(5) One big benefit to doing this is grabbing onto the draft of a faster pack. For example, if you can swim 1:20's per 100 by yourself, but swim 1:12's for 200-300 meters, you can catch the draft of the 1:15 swimmers and swim 1:15's yourself using it. If you can catch the next pack up without blowing yourself up in the process, and if you are comfortable drafting, it can be worth it, IF #6 applies to you. Getting a good draft can give you 1-2 minutes in a half, and 2-4 minutes in a full.
(6) You have to practice this a bunch. Trying it out for the first time on race day is a recipe for distaster. Even doing it for the race rehearsals is also not enough because you need your body to learn to clear the lactic acid while you are still swimming relatively quick, and that requires a number of sessions. You need to practice this during longer sets in trianing too. If you have proved in training on several occassions that you can sprint the first section of a longer swim without causing a significant slowing in last 1000, I say go for it. If you haven't trained it, don't do it.
Unless you are expecting to be one of the first out of the water (and then should be placing yourself at the front of the pack anyway), sprinting for the first 200 meters is not going to truly help you much. As said before, swim to keep form, it's all about getting to the bike. In an IM (even some HIM) swim you aren't ever getting away from the chaos totally so don't expend energy/mental calmness/etc trying to do so. Slot yourself correctly so you aren't swimming over a lot of people, but aside from that just swim to get to the bike.
An IM swim is a different animal from other triathlons. The first thing to learn is that you cannot escape the pack. Unless you are really fast or really slow, you will be surrounded most of the way. The tricks to successful IM swimming are thus learning how to deal with this fact, rather than trying to avoid it.
1a. Where to start. At most IMs I've done (started 17 and counting), there has been a bolus of people starting right on the buoy line, and an even larger group trying to avoid that mess and starting as far away from the buoy line as possible. About 13rd of the way between these two groups, one third of the way from the buoy line, there is usually a thinner clot of people. That's where I start.
b. Sometimes there are obstructions in the water near the start - like the ski jump ramp in IM WI, or like kayakers waiting to get going. I aim for these obstructions, as most people will try to avoid them. This thins out the starting mess even more.
c. Seeding oneself is critical. Look carefully at previous year's swim times, and see how the bell shaped curve sorts out. Deterrmine where you fall %-age wise on that, and line up about 5-10% better than that. E.g., if you expect 1:20 to be your time, and that is the 50th %ile, then line up so about 40-45% of the people in your area are in front of your, the rest behind.
d. Warm up if you can. While out in the water, look back at the beach, and see where the thinnest mass of people is, to confirm my claims about #1a above.
2a. Think relaxed, in control and smooth at all time, even at the start. The feverish energy of those around you will affect your mindset, and you must fight the urge to swim harder than you can handle for the full distance.
b. The EN mantra of staying within the box is not just mental here. You have a little box defined by the distance from your outstretched fingers back to you toes, as wide as your arms go when recovereing out of the water. This is the area you should concern yourself with, not with what's happening outside of that box. No one is actively trying to hurt you, so don't let yourself get caught up in retiliation. Also, you are not racing anyone else around you - swim at your effoft level, not someone else's. You don't know who suddenly decided to speed up for no reason, or slow down and rest
3a. Sighting: don't worry about it. Even if you wanted to go a different direction, the group around you won't let you. Just check in front every now and then and confirm that you are going the general direction of those in front of you.
b. If you must control your own direction, you're going to have to get on one of the two far sides, to eliminate as much of the crowd as possible. But this may be self-defeating, as you lose the advantage of the huge draft of 100's in front of you, and you may have to swim farther as a result.
My short answer to the question is, "No, don't try to sprint ahead at the start. Save your energy for trying to stay calm and smooth in the melee around you."
And, just because some of us need to have the Captain Obvious note here,
Some, nameless, Type A triathlete people could *possibly* think they would have to swim at little girls with pigtail pace to maintain good form. Remember, this is also a cardio event. I'm thinking swimming RPE should probably feel something like an EP run.
Going faster than that will almost certainly put you deeply anaerobic and cost you.
This is what I was wondering. The cost of going anaerobic for a couple of minutes on the front end. Out of 3 IMs I've done this the last two times. IMMOO - 1:07 and IMSG - 1:04. I've trained quite a bit (but not recently) with medium distance sets where we go all out in the first 50-100 and then settle into an aerobic pace. I liken this to "burning a match" in cycling. I've wondered after these two races if I would have had more in the tank on the Bike and Run to do better on those legs if I hadn't gone hard on the front end of the Swim.
The thing is, to me, a deep water start is an ideal situation to get out more in the front. A beach start like IMCDA (my "A" race) - not so good. Run to the water, dive like a mad man, goggles fly off, hit something in the shallow water, etc. A lot can go wrong.
I think I'll start IMCDA a little more steady and pragmatic.
As usual awesome advice from Al. My only caveat is that if you're doing Louisville, the advice is very different due to the time trial start, the murkiness of the water, and the current of the river. There are several threads out in the history that address issues specific to the Louisville swim.
...Some, nameless, Type A triathlete people could *possibly* think they would have to swim at little girls with pigtail pace to maintain good form. Remember, this is also a cardio event. I'm thinking swimming RPE should probably feel something like an EP run.
I translate the coaches' advice to "swim at a pace which allows you to maintain form" to mean: swim as hard as I can without letting my form start to deteriorate at any point during the 2.4 miles of an IM. It IS a race as you suggest, and the idea is to go to the edge but not over. It is hard, but aerobic work, not unlike holding 70% of FTP power on the bike for six hours +/-. Or @ EP for the marathon of an IM for 4 + hours. Not leisurely, for sure.
The question I have then is what about sprinting (or going harder than Threshold) for the first 200-300 meters to free yourself from the insanity and/or get better position and then settling into an easier pace for the first loop?
So the question is: Does that 200-300 meters of going hard cost a lot in terms of energy wasted AND is the payoff worth it?
100% percent agree with Al and others as far as IM goes. However I saw HIM mention as well.
I know in 70.3 (or shorter) I have benefited from going a little harder and getting into a faster pack at the start. I believe this is different because: A) it is usually a wave start, so even a moderate swimmer like myself can actually get in front of many people because of the early "sprint", in IM there are just too many people for me to do this. The race is shorter so one burnt match isn't going to come back nearly as bad 4 hours later as it will 9 hours later.
Comments
3X on go “only as fast as you can maintain form”.
Also to paraphrase the coaches- The swim is just the price of admission to get to the bike, which leads to the run where the race really starts at mile 18.
From a tactical pace perspective – start slow and build. Just like the other 2 legs of the race. Going out to hard in the first 15 min can have a major non positive impact on your race.
37:28 total for 2200 yds = 1:42/100 yds
The question I have then is what about sprinting (or going harder than Threshold) for the first 200-300 meters to free yourself from the insanity and/or get better position and then settling into an easier pace for the first loop?
So the question is: Does that 200-300 meters of going hard cost a lot in terms of energy wasted AND is the payoff worth it?
(1) A lot of people do this, which takes away from the benefit. You might wind up wasting energy fighting in that first 3-4 minutes only to wind up exactly where you would be if you had swum steady.
(2) It depends on how fast you can swim easy and how fast you can sprint. If "sprinting" will only add 1-2 seconds per 100, it's not worth the effort, especially if you are swimming more than 60 minutes for a full -- between 60 minutes and 90 minutes it is just going to be crowded.
(3) All-out sprinting is almost always a really bad idea. By "sprinting" I mean going 5-10 seconds per hundred faster than your expected average pace for 3-4 minutes. Going faster than that will almost certainly put you deeply anaerobic and cost you. If 5-10 seconds per hundred won't be enough, don't do it. I have tried all-out sprinting for only 50-100 meters, and paid a steep price at the back end of the swim, and more on the bike and run.
(4) It depends on where the turn buoys are. The farther out the first turn is, the less benefit there is because the pack will naturally thin out. If the first turn is 200-400 meters out, you will make up a lot of time by going fast early because you will wind up treading water around the buoy (watch an ITU swim video to see this in action). If it's 600 meters or more, the buoy turns aren't nearly as slow.
(5) One big benefit to doing this is grabbing onto the draft of a faster pack. For example, if you can swim 1:20's per 100 by yourself, but swim 1:12's for 200-300 meters, you can catch the draft of the 1:15 swimmers and swim 1:15's yourself using it. If you can catch the next pack up without blowing yourself up in the process, and if you are comfortable drafting, it can be worth it, IF #6 applies to you. Getting a good draft can give you 1-2 minutes in a half, and 2-4 minutes in a full.
(6) You have to practice this a bunch. Trying it out for the first time on race day is a recipe for distaster. Even doing it for the race rehearsals is also not enough because you need your body to learn to clear the lactic acid while you are still swimming relatively quick, and that requires a number of sessions. You need to practice this during longer sets in trianing too. If you have proved in training on several occassions that you can sprint the first section of a longer swim without causing a significant slowing in last 1000, I say go for it. If you haven't trained it, don't do it.
An IM swim is a different animal from other triathlons. The first thing to learn is that you cannot escape the pack. Unless you are really fast or really slow, you will be surrounded most of the way. The tricks to successful IM swimming are thus learning how to deal with this fact, rather than trying to avoid it.
1a. Where to start. At most IMs I've done (started 17 and counting), there has been a bolus of people starting right on the buoy line, and an even larger group trying to avoid that mess and starting as far away from the buoy line as possible. About 13rd of the way between these two groups, one third of the way from the buoy line, there is usually a thinner clot of people. That's where I start.
b. Sometimes there are obstructions in the water near the start - like the ski jump ramp in IM WI, or like kayakers waiting to get going. I aim for these obstructions, as most people will try to avoid them. This thins out the starting mess even more.
c. Seeding oneself is critical. Look carefully at previous year's swim times, and see how the bell shaped curve sorts out. Deterrmine where you fall %-age wise on that, and line up about 5-10% better than that. E.g., if you expect 1:20 to be your time, and that is the 50th %ile, then line up so about 40-45% of the people in your area are in front of your, the rest behind.
d. Warm up if you can. While out in the water, look back at the beach, and see where the thinnest mass of people is, to confirm my claims about #1a above.
2a. Think relaxed, in control and smooth at all time, even at the start. The feverish energy of those around you will affect your mindset, and you must fight the urge to swim harder than you can handle for the full distance.
b. The EN mantra of staying within the box is not just mental here. You have a little box defined by the distance from your outstretched fingers back to you toes, as wide as your arms go when recovereing out of the water. This is the area you should concern yourself with, not with what's happening outside of that box. No one is actively trying to hurt you, so don't let yourself get caught up in retiliation. Also, you are not racing anyone else around you - swim at your effoft level, not someone else's. You don't know who suddenly decided to speed up for no reason, or slow down and rest
3a. Sighting: don't worry about it. Even if you wanted to go a different direction, the group around you won't let you. Just check in front every now and then and confirm that you are going the general direction of those in front of you.
b. If you must control your own direction, you're going to have to get on one of the two far sides, to eliminate as much of the crowd as possible. But this may be self-defeating, as you lose the advantage of the huge draft of 100's in front of you, and you may have to swim farther as a result.
My short answer to the question is, "No, don't try to sprint ahead at the start. Save your energy for trying to stay calm and smooth in the melee around you."
Some, nameless, Type A triathlete people could *possibly* think they would have to swim at little girls with pigtail pace to maintain good form. Remember, this is also a cardio event. I'm thinking swimming RPE should probably feel something like an EP run.
This is what I was wondering. The cost of going anaerobic for a couple of minutes on the front end. Out of 3 IMs I've done this the last two times. IMMOO - 1:07 and IMSG - 1:04. I've trained quite a bit (but not recently) with medium distance sets where we go all out in the first 50-100 and then settle into an aerobic pace. I liken this to "burning a match" in cycling. I've wondered after these two races if I would have had more in the tank on the Bike and Run to do better on those legs if I hadn't gone hard on the front end of the Swim.
The thing is, to me, a deep water start is an ideal situation to get out more in the front. A beach start like IMCDA (my "A" race) - not so good. Run to the water, dive like a mad man, goggles fly off, hit something in the shallow water, etc. A lot can go wrong.
I think I'll start IMCDA a little more steady and pragmatic.
I translate the coaches' advice to "swim at a pace which allows you to maintain form" to mean: swim as hard as I can without letting my form start to deteriorate at any point during the 2.4 miles of an IM. It IS a race as you suggest, and the idea is to go to the edge but not over. It is hard, but aerobic work, not unlike holding 70% of FTP power on the bike for six hours +/-. Or @ EP for the marathon of an IM for 4 + hours. Not leisurely, for sure.
Exactly. Learn from my mistakes.
I know in 70.3 (or shorter) I have benefited from going a little harder and getting into a faster pack at the start. I believe this is different because: A) it is usually a wave start, so even a moderate swimmer like myself can actually get in front of many people because of the early "sprint", in IM there are just too many people for me to do this.