My "Box" on the Bike is still hitting that Int button on the Joule every 20 minutes. I may up it to 30 minutes for IMCDA to account for rolling up zeros while coasting down hills from time to time. But I think creating that micro picture is key.
Same here Jim. Since I got Garmin 910, I still use my SRM PC7 head unit but also use Garmin set up as big numbers on top line of screen: 30 sec power. Bottom half of screen: Lap AVG power and AVG power for whole ride and I auto lap every 10 miles. That seems long enough to account for hills/coasting/etc.
At IMWI last year I created an interval every 30', or about every aid station. Really helped me stay in an execution / ride steady box, effectively managing the micro which becomes the macro.
I think I rode to a VI of ~1.02 which is crazy low on that course. Works like a charm
I practiced this the past couple of days of riding hills...focused on pressure on the pedals and kept the mantra in my head "level out the course"...I'm starting to get it! Amazing to see how the people I was riding with approached the hills, almost exactly like Coach R writes here (he's so smart) They dropped me completely on the hills (although some of that is crappy gearing which will be fixed) but I always caught up and sometimes passed them later. Thanks EN.
Yes, it's actually best to learn/practice this with other people who don't know "the secret" because they will give you a visual reference for how the alternative doesn't work. That is, by looking at your PM you can SWAG the watts/effort they are putting out, when, and how little they actually get for it. You can see the guy surge to 300w+ at the start of the hill, shut it down at the top, over and over again. Same for racing, as you can see the mistakes being made around you. This is a huge confidence boost on race day, as it's like you see the race in 3d and everyone else is 2d
Can you practice this on the Computrainer? It's my only access to training with Power, but I have the old IMCdA course available (of which only the first part is the same) and I thought I might be able to at least practice on those first hills with power to fine-tune my ability to hold the power steady. It's harder for me to feel if I'm getting it right with just HR and feel to go by. Is the Computrainer and adequate simulation to practice this on?
Riding on a trainer is supposed to be steady, just for the fact that you don't have to deal with wind, other people, stop signs, geography, etc.
Using the same zones (power or HR) - excluding any prescribed intervals, etc - for the whole duration of the ride should be your goal! That equates to low VI (variability index), which indicates your "surge-ness".
Robin: I'm just catching up to this thread late, and caught your CT inquiry... I completely agree with Rich (gold star for me).. I sold my soul to Mastercard for a used CT in 2011 (pre-EN) and then a used Quarq this year (post-EN). I'm a beta-tester for the new CT Racermate 1. If the CT is all you got, well it's all you got. I believe Rich would tell you to swap it for a PM- like yesterday- and I would agree that outside power is better than inside... None of us is Andy Potts.
I do all of my weekday riding early in the morning on the CT, and all of my weekend rides outside on the Quarq. So I feel somewhat qualified to answer your question. I would respond that yes, of course, you can absolutely practice the concept of riding steady and smoothing out hills on the CT, especially with the added functionality of Racermate 1 (which is set to be release to the public July 1, I think?).... But as Rich stated, it is different. For me, it was a totally new world when I started training with a PM, kinda like when I first discovered girls.
For instance, no matter what I try, my CT FTP is about 30 w lower than my Quarq FTP, and the HR seems a little off, too.. it's absolutely maddening. My ego is dealing with it. And as you know, CT = no coasting, which is a blessing and a curse. And the bike stays horizontal even on hills. The point is that training with power between the two has not been apples to apples, more like apples to pears. I suspect that you just lose a collective combination of the elements on the CT (wind, friction coefficient, angle, balance, a more acute "feel" of the zones transitions, etc.)
I would argue, however, that on a scale of 1-10 for training with power/pace- with say, a PM being the end-all/be-all 10, and HR being a 5, and most Ricky Racers rocking a 4, a CT can still get to you to a 7, but it will never be a 10. But with the Real Course Video, I think you're getting pretty close- maybe an 8. That's years ahead of most non-EN mortals. I think a CT is an incredible tool, though, especially if you really delve into the functionality. Which is only starting to be tapped with the new software upgrade. For instance, now you can set up multiple "smart" pacers at not only specific watts, but also % of FTP, etc., and transition between them on the simulated course. They hang out around you, and then when you power up, they engage and push you and haunt your dreams!... Anyways, RC1 is a game-changer IMHO, allowing you to do some super-sophisticated training.
And BTW: like you, I had been training on the IM CDA RCV for awhile, and was initially disappointed to learn they changed the famous bike course. So I used the new course profile on the IM CDA website to create a new CT course mimicking the hills. Again, it's not perfect, but it is what it is. I would personally give up socializing and sell some blood, save up, and keep an eye out for some PM deals later this year. With the introduction of some of the new pedal-based power products, lots of weekend warriors will be upgrading (foolishly) to the next big thing, and you might be able to score a sweet PM package like I did.
Comments
My "Box" on the Bike is still hitting that Int button on the Joule every 20 minutes. I may up it to 30 minutes for IMCDA to account for rolling up zeros while coasting down hills from time to time. But I think creating that micro picture is key.
Same here Jim. Since I got Garmin 910, I still use my SRM PC7 head unit but also use Garmin set up as big numbers on top line of screen: 30 sec power. Bottom half of screen: Lap AVG power and AVG power for whole ride and I auto lap every 10 miles. That seems long enough to account for hills/coasting/etc.
At IMWI last year I created an interval every 30', or about every aid station. Really helped me stay in an execution / ride steady box, effectively managing the micro which becomes the macro.
I think I rode to a VI of ~1.02 which is crazy low on that course. Works like a charm
Good stuff, about what I'm trying to do w/ 10 mile auto lapping. Glad to hear R approves!
Yes, it's actually best to learn/practice this with other people who don't know "the secret" because they will give you a visual reference for how the alternative doesn't work. That is, by looking at your PM you can SWAG the watts/effort they are putting out, when, and how little they actually get for it. You can see the guy surge to 300w+ at the start of the hill, shut it down at the top, over and over again. Same for racing, as you can see the mistakes being made around you. This is a huge confidence boost on race day, as it's like you see the race in 3d and everyone else is 2d
Can you practice this on the Computrainer? It's my only access to training with Power, but I have the old IMCdA course available (of which only the first part is the same) and I thought I might be able to at least practice on those first hills with power to fine-tune my ability to hold the power steady. It's harder for me to feel if I'm getting it right with just HR and feel to go by. Is the Computrainer and adequate simulation to practice this on?
Using the same zones (power or HR) - excluding any prescribed intervals, etc - for the whole duration of the ride should be your goal! That equates to low VI (variability index), which indicates your "surge-ness".
You will want to learn and practice this outside. The trainer, even a CT, is just too different.
I do all of my weekday riding early in the morning on the CT, and all of my weekend rides outside on the Quarq. So I feel somewhat qualified to answer your question. I would respond that yes, of course, you can absolutely practice the concept of riding steady and smoothing out hills on the CT, especially with the added functionality of Racermate 1 (which is set to be release to the public July 1, I think?).... But as Rich stated, it is different. For me, it was a totally new world when I started training with a PM, kinda like when I first discovered girls.
For instance, no matter what I try, my CT FTP is about 30 w lower than my Quarq FTP, and the HR seems a little off, too.. it's absolutely maddening. My ego is dealing with it. And as you know, CT = no coasting, which is a blessing and a curse. And the bike stays horizontal even on hills. The point is that training with power between the two has not been apples to apples, more like apples to pears. I suspect that you just lose a collective combination of the elements on the CT (wind, friction coefficient, angle, balance, a more acute "feel" of the zones transitions, etc.)
I would argue, however, that on a scale of 1-10 for training with power/pace- with say, a PM being the end-all/be-all 10, and HR being a 5, and most Ricky Racers rocking a 4, a CT can still get to you to a 7, but it will never be a 10. But with the Real Course Video, I think you're getting pretty close- maybe an 8. That's years ahead of most non-EN mortals. I think a CT is an incredible tool, though, especially if you really delve into the functionality. Which is only starting to be tapped with the new software upgrade. For instance, now you can set up multiple "smart" pacers at not only specific watts, but also % of FTP, etc., and transition between them on the simulated course. They hang out around you, and then when you power up, they engage and push you and haunt your dreams!... Anyways, RC1 is a game-changer IMHO, allowing you to do some super-sophisticated training.
And BTW: like you, I had been training on the IM CDA RCV for awhile, and was initially disappointed to learn they changed the famous bike course. So I used the new course profile on the IM CDA website to create a new CT course mimicking the hills. Again, it's not perfect, but it is what it is. I would personally give up socializing and sell some blood, save up, and keep an eye out for some PM deals later this year. With the introduction of some of the new pedal-based power products, lots of weekend warriors will be upgrading (foolishly) to the next big thing, and you might be able to score a sweet PM package like I did.
Bump. Another discussion lead me to a wiki page that lead me to this post. It's a good one