More New Roadie ?'s: Why Do Hills and Shelled Legs Not The Same On Road vs. Tri Bike?
OK, after 7 or so years of only riding a tri bike and NEVER owning a real road bike before, I kicked down a couple of weeks ago and bought a new Trek Madone road bike. I started another thread about general cycling and got all the goods there. I love my new bike and wish I had done this years ago.
Now I have some follow-up questions after several rides:
- Now that I have the road bike, everyone is saying "go climb the biggest mountain." But just like on my tri bike, If a watt is a watt is a watt whether I am going uphill, downhill, into a headwind, etc. . . . . then what is the real benefit of doing hills? If I do my intervals at FT or a kick ass .92 IF 3 hour bike on a mountain climbing 6,000 feet and only going 30 miles or a flat country road and only climbed 750 feet and 65 miles, does it matter? If so, why? Am I missing something?
- I am also starting to really push the watts on the new road bike. One thing I am noticing is that after a really hard ride my legs don't feel the same "shelled" feeling like I do on my tri bike. I know I was pushing hard, expecially the intervals cuz I was just trying to hold on, but the post ride feeling in my legs is different? Almost like I didn't work that hard?
Thanks for any insight.
John
P.S. My Capo gear got here today. One thing is for sure, the roadie clothing is designed for you little peeps. 
Comments
I sold my road bike last year and kept my Tri bike as my main and only sled. For me, random riding around pushing hills or riding pace just didn't do a thing for me. I would ride pace and get all nerved up riding 12 inches off the tire of someone and couldn't really enjoy the view.
So John why do you wish you did this years ago, just because its different ?
John,
Re: hills at ftp vs. flats at ftp: I thought the same thing as that's how we're trained in EN. Until I got badly schooled in hilly brevets. I rode with a good climber for 24 hours last year during my 1000k; he repeatedly claimed that climbing is a learned skill, that it's not just a matter of watts/kg. The best I can figure out is this: climbing, especially hard efforts, requires a different position on the bike, thereby utilizing a different set of muscles. I've started doing hill repeats and very hilly brevets; it's getting better.
While a watt is a watt is a watt, I view things like this.......
250 watts by 90rpms + less force applied to pedals on flat road, versus
250 watts by 70rpms + more force applied to pedals on an ascent.
I believe the 250w on the ascent with the lower cadence is building muscular strength much greater than the high cadence option, and that muscular strength gained through lots and lots of climbing pays big dividends later on in one's bike fitness. I do both versions -- flats and climbs -- by the way to mix things up.
My n=1 experiment in this approach seems to be working. Jumping on my tri bike on a flat course, after weeks and weeks of climbing, has me in aero position practically falling asleep in wattage zones around IF=80% - 85%. Of course on my tri bike on those flat courses I am back to a higher range cadence. I cannot be sure there is a direct correlation between my climbing activities and the easier perceived exertion on the tri bike, but I believe there is some sort of correlation, at least for me.
A watt is not a watt when you're talking moving from bike to bike. Consider all these various combinations
The net is that when I ride my road bike or my tri bike, I have a little table in my head that correlates watts to riding position, to ass position to RPE across all of these combinations and I know what combo to dial in when. For example, now that I'm on the tri bike I'm trying to figure out when is the best grade/speed to come out of the bars when climbing, and then the best ass position. Do I not slide forward or back on the saddle and keep the same seatube angle, or do I slide way back on the saddle to replicate climbing on the road bike? Which has the best combination of watts and RPE?
If you have a PM, with cadence, a head on your shoulders, and not much to think about during a 4hr ride....these are things you should be experimenting with and trying out. You'll learn a ton.
* you can really murdalize yourself and earn more TSS than you could on a tri bike
* you can stand comfortably and learn to maintain your momentum up a hill
* you can learn to find your "rhythm" while standing and climbing -- in the right gear you can do this all day again making you stronger.
Plus remember roadies see a hill and kill themselves up it only to coast down / cruise the flats. As an ENer, you must power the flats, ride the downs till you hit 32+, and now, Mr. Roadie, try to crush that hill. O.U.C.H.
Thanks all.
@Rich - I did my first 2 x 10's on Mt. Diablo on the road bike the other day and really focused on how i was positioned on the bike for maximum output. Especially on the turns where the grade % jumps for a short distance. Was amazing what I was feeling, how I was sitting, etc. Will keep noddling that.
@Bill - Thanks. I am learning like you. :-) But you are light years ahead of me already.
@Dave - I am beginning to see the benefits based on Riches comments and i will jump on the tri bike in 2 weeks or so and really see what the differences are.
@Patrick - Murdalize? I like that word. Been doing just that the past few rides. But standing and climbing are still new and I am trashed in short order and need to get back in the saddle. Will keep practicing.
@David - Right now because it is so new. But I am finding I have a wider range of fun on a road bike than my tri bike. I fly around the turns with more control, easier to climb and just feels freer to me. But again, I am still new to all this.
Exactly. The variety of hand positions on the bike and the distribution of your weight on the frame makes the bike easier and more fun to handle in a variety of situations. The tri bike is very, very good at going in a straight line very fast, no doubt. But beyond that you end up making a lot of compromises on the tri bike vs the roadie.
I'm going to bust out the helmet cam with Sawiris and have him film me descending GMR on a tri bike. You'll see that you can descend nearly as a quickly and controlled as on a road bike, but you'll also see me shifting my weight around on the bike quite a bit.