The Altitude Training Thread
Paging Dr Truscott and other smart, high altitude peeps to the white courtesy phone 
I don't know much about high altitude training: when, how much, how long it takes for adaptations to occur/go away, etc. But I have the resources and the time to do a couple high altitude (living and training at 7-11k) training camps this summer and am looking for advice. I'll take the hightlights and create a wiki post for us all.
So...questions I have:
- How long does it take for adaptations to occur? IOW, is 3 day camp, while cool, not really going to get you much red blood cell goodness? 7 days? 14 days?
- How long do the gains last?
- Recovery issues during/after the camp?
My opportunity is that I'm doing a camp in June Lake, CA, 7600ft elevation, July 1-10, mostly free place to stay. I can train in anything from 4k to 10k-11k, depending on how far/long I'm willing to drive or ride. Swim in the lake at 7600ft or drive to a pool at about 6700, can ride, run, ride, and run some more at any and all elevations. Too early, I'm pretty sure, for this to be any mojo for IMWI, but I could take that finess to an Oly the following weekend, if I wanted.
I can do a second camp much closer to IMWI. Not sure about this same location, but I can take my trailer up to Crowley Lake (6700ft) or Mammoth Lakes (7800ft) as a basecamp. Same training opportunities as the June Lake camp.
- I'm comfortable with a 2wk taper for an IM. In other words, return to LA, shave the beard, do my final RR two weeks out then start the taper. I suppose I "could" go back up to altitude, in Big Bear, etc, if it would help (not sure what Joanne is gonna say about all of this
) - Will adaptations last for ~16-18 days?
Anything else we should add?
In '02 and '03 I did camps out of Mammoth but only about 3-4 days, more as a cool place to go and train vs anything super organized. These are great work on your head opportunities: there's a 120+ mile bike loop with a gillion feet of gain and ZERO people, ride into/out of Yosemite NP, repeat the epic climbs of Everest Challenge, runs at 9k feet...total Rocky IV on a mountain top kinda stuff.
Thanks in advance!
Comments
First, the increase in red blood cells from altitude training is offset by your inability to reach higher intensities when training at altitude. Apparently, these just about cancel each other out. This isn't true if you train low and race high, in which case performance goes down. If you can live high (at least 1 mile up), and train low (below 4,000 feet but it might be lower -- I can't find the actual number), you can reach the required intensities while getting the benefit of the altitude adaptation. It sounds like you can train lower, while sleeping higher. Do that.
Second, it takes approximately 14 days to acclimate (increased red blood cells). 3 days won't cut it. I thought the effects disappeared after 14 days, but am not sure on that.
Third, I don't remember anything about recovery, but can tell you anecdotally that when I have trained high (outside Denver), I got huge headaches that lasted for several days, even after I got back to sea level. It did affect my sleep some, which probably made workouts less good than they would otherwise have been.
Fourth, and this is related to point 1, understand that power and pace will be impacted. If you try to hit your sea level wattage and pace targets at altitude, you will be working considerably harder than expected to do so.
In summary, altitude trianing won't hurt you, but unless you can train below 4,000 feet and live above 6,000 feet for 14 days at least, it's not a big benefit.
http://talktriathlon.com/?s=Triathlon Coaching
Thanks for the article, very informative!
I "could" do the high low thing if I got creative:
Wheels turning....
Rich, you've got access to the science now (there's some stuff on Friel's blog also, but I'll spare you the link), and I just got back from living for 3 weeks @ 8400' with training at various altitudes, so I'll share what I"ve learned having done this 2 x per year for the past five years, and racing three weeks later.
The physiologic gains from merely living high max out at 3 weeks, and last 2-6 weeks. Above 3-4 K feet, there starts to be a signficiant decrement in FTP - meaning if you do an FTP test at altitude, your watts will be lower, by 16-20% at 7-8K feet. So what I've finally figured out is that I can't do interval work, meaning IP runs and FTP bikes and similar swim stuff. But I can handle things like uphill strides and sprint 25s in the pool. So I mainly do two things:
• Ride at whatever elevation up to 10K feet I want at efforts between 65 and 90% of my FT. Above 10K, 65-70% is about the limit. A good FTP type workout would be a 6% +/- climb for 45 minutes @ 90%going from 7800' to 9600', which I'll do once a week. What I really focus on are 4-5 hours rides at 65-75% (maybe up to 80% for you?) at IM race pace, really.
• Go down to about 6-6.5K feet to do weekly long runs and weekly "intervals", which become more like tempo work (HMP-MP miles). At that elevation, my LRP is the same, but I can't pick up the pace easily beyond that for a true EN style long run. I'll also do a brick @ LRP at 8400' 1-2 x a week.
Disrupted sleep the first few days there and increased fluid needs (due to the low humidity) are quite common for some people. But after 2-3 days, I no longer feel like I'm always trying to catch my breath.
Summary: Don't expect training at altitude to get you faster; but it will get you an endurance boost for race day if done within 2-4 weeks of the race. Witness my usual tactic of winning my races by passing people who are slowing down at the end, while I stay the same pace.
Of course, maybe that's just superb race execution?
I think the altitude camp helps make it easier to execute well toewards the end of the marathon, but it's no substitute for proper bike pacing, of course.
Al, thanks for the input. These camps would be more about the volume and less about the intensity. For example, today will be a 4.5hr day, as 2.5hr hard bike, 1hr swim, 1hr HMP/T-pace run. But I have errands to run, chores to do, can't really take a nap without getting a bit of the evil eye from Mama...stuff like that
. By going away I'm pretty sure I could string many days like this together, just eat, sleep, train, and sleep. Also just some epic, epic riding and running out there.
Distance between Mammoth (8500ft) and Bishop (~4k) is about 30-35 miles so easy to commute for any faster pace running I want to do.
Very interesting read and info from a physiologic perspective.
Do you think a bunch of Tahoe KQ wanna be's will benefit from a hypoxic tent? Sleep high, train low at its finest. I've read several articles from some the of leaders in this area and understand there are responders and nonresponders, but I'd think about this if I wanted to get the RBC boost to compete at 6k-7.5K feet!
link appears to be broken.
If you can afford an altitude tent and your ged partner can tolerate it, why not?
Here's a much lower cost alternative from Australia
I never thought I'd sit around worrying so much about how I could deprive myself of oxygen.
The 2 week acclimation window just isn't going to be possible. I don't have that type of vacation time. Altitude tents + generator are going to cost $$$$$ and are out of the question. Staying in say Sacramento and only driving up to the race for packet pickup / bike check in and then trying to arrive for the actual race within 24hrs is potentially an option, but a huge PITA, and defeats much of the purpose of me wanting to be in Tahoe, I'm also not 100% convinced on the science of that theory.
I've heard of AltiPower (very recently) but have no idea of its true effectiveness and just how much time you have to spend sucking on that thing. And then there is the option just to admit that none of the other options are going to work for me and that I'm going to just show up and suck wind, taking solace that nearly everyone else will be in the same boat. Of course though, in my head everyone else is going to be finding some way to acclimate though as I finish BOP...
Hmm, lot of questions I need to figure out before Monday.
I'll drop in my 2c from my experience living full time @ 7000', but typically racing, and ocassionally training down low ( 0-3000 ft).
Adjustments in RPE and performance probably do not invert cleanly but perhaps the gains I experience by going down hill, might give you SWAG guage of what to experience going up.
Run and Swim are affected the most. I usually can run 10-15 sec per mile faster for the same RPE and HR down low, this is equivalent to ~ 1.5 vdot or shifting my zones by 1 (my z3 @ home becomes a z2 down low).
Swim can gain me 3-5 sec per 100 for same SPE.
Bike....Meh...my HR still shifts 10-15 bpm lower for the same power range, but PE doesn't change a whole lot. I think in some sense Power is still just Power and at endurance pacing z1/z2 I dont notice much advantage. Perhaps because cycling uses fewer muscle groups and affords more rest. The real advantage may come in that I am much fresher for the run, or that I can hold z3 a lot longer. Its a bit hard to guage since cycling is my weak link.
So at high altitude might be able to expect that on the bike you wouldn't be able to maintain the z3 range for as long, or that 4.5 hours of z2 is going to leave you more fatigued but not by a significant amount. Being conservative and scaling back your IF by ~ 5% is probably reasonable to maintain the same PE.
To plan for run pacing and keep the same RPE you're used to, drop vdot by another 1.5-2 or move your zones by 1: z2 becomes your z3.
To plan for the swim you might anticpate a drop by 5s/100 to keep the same PE.
Of course this is sample size of n=1 so YMMV.
Remember - you heard it here first!
@ Dave - I had thought that was a difference between IM Canada where snorkels used to be legal (back when I raced in 01 and 02), and the US IMs, which are covered by USAT rules except as WTC modifies them (with USAT permission). So I went back and reviewed a generic Athlete's Guide for US IMs (IM AZ), the USAT rules, and the IM Ca rules.
There is no mention in either the IM AZ athlete's guide, nor the USAT rules of snorkels.
On the ironman.ca website, I found this list of exceptions to USAT rules. I'm not sure if that list still applies in the US, but in Canada, it's on their race website. For those unwilling to click thru, it bans snorkels in IM and 70.3 races, but it is dated 2006.
My conclusion: snorkels are legal in USAT sanctioned rasces, except for those also sanctioned by WTC. They are also helpful on deep powder days in Utah.
I also found this interesting USAT rule which one might think could be applied to the swim. It's 3.4.g:
"Unfair Advantage. No participant shall use his body, head, arms, or legs to gain an unfair advantage, or to push, pull, hold, strike, or force through one or more participants. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty. "
@Al
I've never seen anything concrete that says that Snorkels are indeed illegal at WTC events. As you pointed out, it is clear that they are legal per USAT, and I've never seen anything that makes me believe WTC has specifically prohibitted them at US events.
In fact, I've seen several snorkels at WTC events, I swam next to a snorkel dude at IMWI for some time, he and the others I've seen all had their snorkels in plain sight entering the water. Likewise, there are usually a handful of threads every year on Slowtwitch about snorkel sightings at IMs and the chorus has always been that they are legal.
Now, all this evidence is anecdotal, but if they are indeed not legal at WTC events, then either this is a new clarification of the rules, or they simply have done a very poor job of enforcing this.
I'm not saying snorkels are or aren't legal @ WTC events. Just that the only official Ironman thing I see referring to snorkels is from a list of WTC/USAT agreed upon allowed deviations from USAT rules which is specifically dated 2006, and appears only on the IM Canada website.
A quick Google search also turned up this from (of all places) Livestrong.com
Even so, I don't see any advantage regards to altitude with a snorkel, unless one put a little O2 cannister into it.
Loves me some studies. Though it could take a day to get through all of these ...
Books
Altitude Training and Athletic Performance by Randall L. Wilber.
Reviews and Summary Articles
Altitude Training for Sea-Level Competition, Baker and Hopkins, Sportscience Training & Technology, 1998. Reviewed 17 independent studies,
"Enhancement for the average athlete is 2-3%"
Interval Hypoxic Training. Bernardi, Adv Exp Med Biol. 2001. "IHT increases the hypoxic ventilatory response, increase red blood cell count and increase
aerobic capacity ... but still largely to be explored for its mechanisms, potentials and limitations."
Scientific Studies
Improved Running Economy in Elite Runners After 20 Days of Simulated Moderate-Altitude Exposure.
Saunders et al. J Appl Physiol. 2004. Average improvement of 3.3% in running economy (decrease in oxygen demand) at moderate running speeds after
20 days of Live High-Train Low training in elite distance runners.
Living High-Training Low: Effect on Red Cell Mass and Aerobic Performance in Elite Middle-Distance Runners [PDF] P. Robach et al., 2004 (Abstract #13).
"18 days of living high-training low induced a net increase of 5% in aerobic performance, which tended to persist 15 days after the end of training."
Living High-Training Low: Effect of Moderate-Altitude Acclimatization with Low-Altitude Training on Performance, B. Levine and J. Stray-Gundersen, Journal
of Applied Physiology, 1997. Significantly increased VO2 Max (5%), red cell mass (9%), and 3.9% improvement in 5K time.
A Three-Week Traditional Altitude Training Increases Hemoglobin Mass and Red Cell Volume in Elite Biathlon Athletes, Heinicke et al. Intl. J. of Sports
Medicine, 2005. "We show for the first time that a three-week traditional altitude training increases erythropoietic [EPO] activity [by 76%] even in world class
endurance athletes...leading to increased red blood cell volume"
Intermittent Hypoxia Improves Endurance Performance and Submaximal Exercise Efficiency, K. Katayama et al., High Altitude Medicine & Biology, 2003.
"Intermittent hypoxia at rest could improve endurance performance and submaximal exercise efficiency at sea level in trained endurance athletes"
Training-Induced Increases in Sea-Level Performance are Enhanced by Acute Intermittent Hypobaric Hypoxia. Meeuwsen et al. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001.
Study of elite male triathletes. "A significant increase of 7.0% was seen in the mean maximal oxygen uptake per kilogram body weight (VO2max), and the
mean maximal power output per kilogram body weight (Wmax) increased significantly by 7.4%."
Intermittent Hypoxic Training: Fact and Fancy. Levine, High Alt Med Biol. 2002. "Living high-training low has been shown to improve sea-level endurance
performance, [while] the opposite strategy, living low-training high, leads to the opposite effect - reduced speeds, reduced power output, reduced oxygen
flux"
Coincidence came in my email this AM. I Dont have it, havent read it but heres an ebook on practical training guide at Altitude:
http://www.enduranceplanet.com/endurance-planets-guide-to-elevation-practical-tips-for-living-eating-and-training-at-altitude/
Jenn, Rian - thanks for these lkinks. I will check them out over the next 2.5 weeks as I get ready for my first altitude camp in CO.
I live in Denver so my FTP will be lower than someone at Sea Level. When I race at sea level I should stick to my ftp numbers that I have created at altitude. Then I should have a little bit more more energy later on in the run than the others, correct?
If and when I have the chance I should head into the moutaints for training to get a bigger boost.
John, if it were me, I would:
So Rich are you moving to Big Bear?
I dont know if it was mentioned here or in the IMHOE thread but if you train low alt and are racing high alt, the swim breathing is going to be a adjustment.
From personal experience (but I am NOT a great swimmer) and in conversation with the other Tri-geeks here, I've found the best I can do bilateral breathing wise is a 3-2-2-3-2-2 pattern, but usually if I'm doing a TT or intervals I go single sided and breath every 2. So if you're dedicated to a 3 stroke or longer breath interval you may want to practice a 2 stroke pattern or the 3-2-2 patern, in the lead up to a race. My 2c.
Right. Whenever I swim up here @8000' in CO, I have to single side breathe instead of the bilateral I do @ sea level. I do alt right and left side every length, for practice.
John:
Heed Rich's advice. I, too, live in Denver. Raced 2007 IM Wisconsin. I felt like Superman on the bke, and pushed my watts up (about 230 NP on a FTP=280, which is an IF > 0.8). Felt awesome through mile 15 of the run. Death marched the last 11.2.
If you're planning to ride at IF=0.7, then if coming down from altitude, I would NOT go over 0.75, no matter how you feel on the bike. Between taper and race excitement, your sense of what you COULD do is out of whack with what you SHOULD be doing.
Al or any of the other smart guys,
What is your take on altitude acclimation with limited exposure? By that I mean, I've heard the figures are 2-weeks minimum for altitude acclimation. Do you have any thoughts on how that time period would vary if you were only exposed at night, i.e. sleeping in an altitude tent?
I've noticed it's possible to rent an altitude tent system, so therefore it might be possible to spend 2 weeks sleeping in one in the final build up to the race. However, if acclimation is slowed down by the limited exposure (nights only), then it still becomes cost prohibitive fairly quickly since the whole generator + tent system rents for $175 a week.