LIEBS' EAGLEMAN 2011 RR
I must say, I am pretty bummed out about my performance in today's Eagleman. Comparing my fitness now to 9 months ago for HIM Syracuse, I am much farther along now, and much "EN smarter". And of course, I have big bucks invested in high-tech bike and gadgets. 9 months ago I did Syracuse in 6:03. Today was freaking 6:42! Honestly, I'm pretty upset because I have no idea what went wrong - I thought I planned and followed the EN guidance to the "T".
Short version: OK swim for me (non-wetsuit, ~52 min), what I thought was the perfect bike (power file attached and highlights below), and as soon as I started running in the heat BAM GI cramps that forced me to walk. And although 89 degrees and apparently cooler than EM last year, I found the heat to be unbearable, at least for a big guy like me. My Infinit was a boiling mess at that point, so ditched it and went with the water, gatorade, and coke out on the run course, which I could keep down. Thankfully I had a Desoto Cooler shirt on with pockets along the spine for the volunteers to stuff ice into at each mile aid station. That shirt really works!
Anyways, I walked probably a third of the run on and off because I could feel that I was cooked. And those around me looked like bombed-out Beirut. I was fucking embarrassed to walk because I knew I screwed up, but angry because I didn't and still don't know how. Thankfully I wasn't wearing any EN gear 
I know our mantra is "there's no such thing as a good bike followed by a bad run". Except that's *exactly* what happened to me today, and this was with me following my power guidance. Granted, I'm new to the power game, but I thought I did OK. I was able to pick it up a little bit the back half of the run. Interestingly, my HR stayed in zone 1-2 throughout the run. So honestly, I don't know what the heck is going on.
I know our mantra is "there's no such thing as a good bike followed by a bad run". Except that's *exactly* what happened to me today, and this was with me following my power guidance. Granted, I'm new to the power game, but I thought I did OK. I was able to pick it up a little bit the back half of the run. Interestingly, my HR stayed in zone 1-2 throughout the run. So honestly, I don't know what the heck is going on.Bike power highlights: 56 miles 89 degrees Pnorm=185 Pavg=179 for a VI of only 1.03, only 3 surges. Avg speed 19.65 mph avg HR 150. TSS off the bike was 165.9, IF 0.76 of an FTP of 244w; I mean, I thought I executed exactly how I was supposed to.
Except I felt like shit when I started to run - and that was *with* the added 30 seconds to my pacing.
Sent my power file in to the coaches for the Crucible, hopefully they can shed some light on what I am doing wrong. Because now I am worried; I have my first full IM Placid in 6 weeks, and then of course Kona 2.5 months later. I have got to iron out the kinks.
Some thoughts:
1) Since everything is based on FTP, maybe my 244w FTP is overinflated in reality? (it was real, but it was done on an indoor trainer - maybe I should retest outdoors to see what I can really maintain?)
2) I chose a conservative bike split of 2:52, and based on the tables I picked low end IF and ended up choosing 190 as goal watts, but then ratcheted it down to 185 because of rising temps throughout the morning. Ended up with conservative IF of 0.76 and TSS well within the HIM range according to the charts and podcasts.
I learned a lot today - that I still have a lot to learn apparently. Hoping you guys can help me nail down some better (?more accurate/realistic) target numbers for FTP/run pace.
Thanks
Liebs
0
Comments
What you describe was a carbon copy of what happened to my brother last weekend. We've spent about 3 hours on the phone this last week analyzing the race and we came up with a few things that might be useful. But you have a pretty aggressive race schedule and will have to figure things out in a hurry with LP being a first IM and a Kona chaser only 2 months later.
**Disclaimer** Like I told my brother, an IM is a completely different race, so what might work well in a half might not necessarily work in a full. But with regard to an analysis of a HIM performance, here is my $0.02
First of all, I think you pretty much nailed your bike. ?It was smart making adjustments based on the conditions and I think an IF of 0.76 was good. In a half, the teaching is that you can go 0.8-0.85 in a half and still be able to execute a good run. I, and many others like me, have done this successfully. So I think the bike was the highlight of your day and perfectly executed. Maybe even a little conservative if you were feeling good. And as for your FTP, I've never read a single post from anyone that says their FTP is higher on the trainer than outdoors (not that I've read every post). But for most people, me included, my trainer FTP is about 10% lower than my outdoor FTP. I only test outdoors, then when I head to the cave in the winter for OS, I just change my FTP in Joule/WKO+ to 10% less and work up from there.
As for the run. I've seen the numbers you post in here and your run fitness is legit. So you definitely had a bad run. The question is why. First of all, you mentioned stomach cramps. First thing I think of is nutrition. You mention Infinit but didn't describe your race plan for nutrition. Did you post a race plan in the forum for critique? DIdn't check before I started typing. But it would be helpful if you posted it (nutrition plan) here. It would also be helpful to know what happened when you ran in your race rehearsals. Any issues? I'm also curious to know what you meant when you said you felt like shit. My brother said the same thing to me and he could not describe it, he just said he couldn't run anymore. As for HR, doesn't mean anything. If it did, you would have been running. I've found that HR doesn't mean shit at the end of a HIM. If you are running, and feeling good, it doesn't matter what it is. What are you going to do if it's high? Slow down? No way! Not if you're feeling it. What if it's low and you feel like you are going to die? Speed up? Personally, since I got a power meter, haven't strapped on a HR monitor and my performances continues to improve every race. Finally, why was your T2 time so long?
Answer the questions and we will continue to discuss. Regardless, you are going to have to put this race behind you and gear up for 2 IM race rehearsals in the next 3 weeks. Take a couple days completely off, compress, massage, then get back on the horse.
Looks like you nailed the bike. FWIW, hot infinit turns my stomach. I'm gonna try putting my bottle in the freezer the night before my next race... Maybe that had a bit to do with it... Maybe the bottle exchange water was poisoned.... Who knows...?
The pain comes when starting the run and is located just below the ribs and makes it very difficult to run....
My solution is to continously exhale during the swim..and make sure that I exhale completely. Not doing so can lead to a build up of air bubbles in the body that can be painful and prevent a good run...
So far this has worked in an HIM and I'll put it to the real test in 4 weeks at the IM distance..
Also you said Infinit on the run. I know a lot of us use Infinit with protein on the bike, but those that run with it generally have a second mix with no protein cause it can cause stomach issues on the run- do you have a protein-less mix for the run? How many calories did you take in on the run? Infinit, then water, gatorade, and coke seems like a lot of calories for the run (especially for a HIM where your pace is increased). I'm wondering if you were feeling not-so-hot off the bike due to some nutrition issues and then compounded it by adding to the problem with more calories for your gut to deal with, making a recovery impossible.
Also, I am definitely one of the few who has a higher indoor FTP than outdoor. I generally can raise my outdoor to match and then surpass my indoor after a month or two of riding outside, which is tough on race season since I'm from Chicago. Maybe being from PA maybe you hadn't fully adjusted to riding outside? I would say if you haven't tested outside that would be one thing to definitely do once you are recovered from your race. I find that the outdoor elements affect me significantly until I can get used to them. I find it especially helpful to test outside in the heat as my body reacts differently when I'm hot and outside than in any other conditions (even super hot inside riding).
Finally, I note that your division position didn't change between your bike and the run. Pure speculation (as maybe you would have jumped multiple spots on the run), but that makes me wonder if everyone was affected by the conditions (cause I would think running a 12.5 min/mi would drop you at least one spot, but since you didn't...).
As someone who is chronically plagued with having a good training season followed up by a booger of a race, I feel your pain. But the best thing is that you learn from this, and if anything it makes you better prepared for the next time, especially mentally which can be very tough to deal with during your race. I'm sure with some more race rehearsals it can get figured out. FWIW, it doesn't sound like you fit into the category of good bike followed by bad run. Race execution is about so much more, and it sounds like one of the other moving parts got out of whack, but I'd guess your bike pacing was spot on.
Finally- don't be too hard on yourself. I've done E-man many times (including last year) and it's always killer hot. There's no shade on that run and whatever wind you were fighting on the bike has completely left town by the time you get to the run. I've noticed that big dudes always seem to suffer more than anyone else on that course. It's just a nature of the beast. You were able to run the second half stronger than the first, so that tells me you had the mental toughness to get your head back together and make it a good race (also hints to me again that it was nutrition on the bike that caused the initial problems).
So tell us what your plan was for nutrition vs what you actually did on the bike.
Don't beat yourself up to much, it was hot, conditions tough, use it as a learning experience. I had a similar issue to yours a few weeks back at the Kinetic Half, I am also working my way towards IMLP. I had a good swim and absolutely nailed the bike, VI, IF, TSS was actually below what I was targeting, the whole nine yards. Got off the bike and thought I would nail the run and then did not have the run I was hoping. It was a humid day but besides that in posting and getting some good feedback I attribute a lot of the run issues due to very little if any taper at all for the race. Fact is, before that race I had gone through 20 weeks of OS, one week transition, then right into 12 week IM plan with only a couple lighter days prior to race. It was suggested to me that the fatigue buildup from all that work, even though you may not feel it, is definitely there. At least that is my "excuse"/reasoning. Dont know what your training/taper had been up to that point but maybe just something to think about.
I did eaglaman before IMLP last year so I was kind of in the same boat. I did not taper and only took the travel days off training for LP.
While not as hot as last year, it was hot again this year, which obviously makes things difficult. Were you well hydrated? I definitely was not and it took the run right out of me.
I had a bad eaglaman last year from these factors, maybe you can infer somwthign from them.
1) no wetsuit swim - I was in the water 15 minutes longer than I had anticipated (also, rumors are that the course was longer due to bouy movement, but I digress).
2) I went out too fast on the bike. I was in 1st gear for way to short of a time. And I might have cooked myself my the end of the bike.
3) It was HOT & windy. The heat effected all three splits.
4) No taper at all.
Luckily, any mistakes you made, you made before LP, and you've got time to correct them.
If by Fantastic, you mean I enjoyed every minute of it - then yes, it was fantastic.
I'm sure Liebs will be fantastic at LP as well.
One thing I really learned at the LP Camp this past weekend is that I need to adjust the nutrition plan slightly given the conditions. Friday was 70s and sunny while Saturday was rainy and 50s/60s...My water needs go up by maybe 15-25oz of water/hour when the sun is out to include upping the sodium. I ran well off the bike during both brick runs this weekend.
don't be bummed out....seems to me you have some great experience under your belt in preparation for IMLP....
See you up there..
Jonathan,
You lived that counts. Nutrition/hydration at EM is always tough--that run is relentless.
Something else to ask as you try and figure out what didn't go as planned. You said your swim was long but how much of the Choptank did you leave behind for others? I mean, that water is brackish... and probably not salty enough for you to say on race day, "man that salt water clobbered my stomach". Do you think you could have taken in enough brackish water to upset your stomach when it started to slosh around on the run?
Regardless, you finished after overcoming a pretty tough nutrition day. That counts!
Oh, and:
I have a little disposable foam cooler that I store 2x empty bottles for my bike in (with the lid off), day before I fill the COOLER up about 1/2 way with water and freeze the bottles in. Then on race morning, I pull out the two bottles and replace with already cold bottles of Gatorade/Water/Infinite. Cover with a towel before you leave transition for the swim and they'll stay super cool during the swim. In T1 I just pull the bottles out and stuff them on the bike. IMHO, works better than freezing just the bottles. Bonus: you can put another water bottle in the ice shape before you leave on the bike == cold bottle to take with you on the run.
Word.
The pre-race nutrition had to do with life getting in the way...big breakfast as usual Sat am but missed lunch cuz left for Maryland late, didn't get down until like 3pm, got to Expo and then to park to rack bike, by then was 5-ish and was starving. Went to Chili's and I manged on a bacon cheeseburger, fries, and fully loaded nachos, chocolate bar for dessert (insert horrible comment here____). Truthfully, up until yesterday I have *never* had a GI issue through 8 marathons and a half-Ironman, so I didn't think twice. Then to top it off, the B&B we stayed in had nothing-no fridge, restaurant, etc - so I went to Target and bought a box of frosted strawberry pop-tarts (!), of which I ate 2 at 8pm, 2 at 1am, and *another* 2 at 3am along with Gatorade, along with a small box of Wheaties Fuel. Hydrated with Gatorade and water all day Sat. Needless to say, my pre-race nutrition was not very smart but that has been a baseline for me. I will strive to improve this area, regardless of whether or not it hurt me yesterday.
What is more likely to have hurt me is my race-day nutrition. Out of the water I thought would be a good time to eat, and since I've never had a GI problem before, thought nothing of pounding two NutriGrain cereal bars *right before the bike*(which I have also done before without problem. I know, doesn't mean its the right thing to do...). Then, on the bike I had my watch set and took a swig off my 3x concentrated Infinit bottle chased by water on the bike every 15 min like clockwork. However, as I now look, my formula only has 560mg sodium (after I've now read multiple posts here saying upwards of 1000mg an hour is reasonable, especially for a hot day, especially for a heavy sweater, likely especially for...ME). So let's see...this set me up to be 3 hours behind the 8-ball to the tune of about 400mg low on sodium EACH hour on the bike. Add to that I only drank 40 oz of water per hour (only room for one h20 bottle, aid station every 10 miles), PLUS 89 degree heat - I am fairly confident that you all were right on the money when you suggested my nutrition / lytes were all out of whack. I also had a few GU chomps on the bike (which I've tolerated in marathons before). In retrospect, I bet all the solid food came back to haunt me as soon as I stopped pedaling three hours later and the blood reshunted back to my gut. Which, by the way, probably explains my T2 time being 2x higher than my T1 time, was not feeling "well" stomach wise. And explains the GI cramps as soon as I started running. So, all in all I think I was electrolyte-depleted, combined with an approx 18-hour period of eating like a moron which certainly didn't make my life easier during the race. I appreciate that now.
Does any of this sound correct?
So...for starters, here's what I'm considering:
1) the back rack goes back on, with more water bottle carrying options. Will redo sweat test in high heat to get oz fluid/hour losses.
b) The osmolality of my Infinit is 317, which is too high and I prob should dial it down.
iii) Would you agree that I was salt-depleted? (yes I am a "crusty" individual after long runs) Does anyone use S-caps or Saltstick together WITH their infinit?
FOUR) considering bagging infint altogether and going with gatorade perform on course. My infinit bottle for the run was a hot, boiled, congealed mess and I ended up taking one sip of it and chucking it. I didn't have a problem keeping the gatorade, coke, and water down afterwards on the run once I started moving.
As always, I am so thankful I came across this team a year ago and fortunate to have you as teammates , friends, and coaches!
Liebs
1) I think that's a good idea. Or get a front mounted hydration system. It is true that wicked fast guys that are competing for WC slots, AG podium slots, etc. keep very tight setups on their bikes with minimal on-board nutrition/hydration. But if you are not hydrating enough due to the fact that you are trying to reduce your weight by 1.5 pounds, you could cost yourself more time over the course of the whole race than you would save by carrying that weight around. I know people will disagree with me, but it just makes sense to me that my weight + bike weight + nutrition/fluid weight (3 bottles for me on a HIM) could significantly negatively affect my bike time compared to my weight + bike weight + nutrition/fluid weight - 1.5 pounds. Just sayin'.
2) While that osmolality is high, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to change your formula. Remember that number is calculated with 2 scoops mixed with 20 ounces water. If you drink a 2 scoop bottle with 24 ounces of water and supplement with a little extra water every hour, that number will come down. Also, don't forget that a couple bars and some GU chomps without enough water would be another osmolality issue.
3) I am also a heavy salty sweater. I maxed out the electrolytes on my Infinit formula but still supplement with Meta Salt caps to get more than 1000mg of sodium per hour and never had issues with cramping, etc., even in hot races.
4) I stopped using Infinit on the run. In HIM and IM races where your run bag is sitting outside for 5-12 hours, or even up to 24 hours, it gets pretty gross. I also like a change of flavors once I get off the bike. If you take in enough nutrition on the bike, it doesn't take much for calories/carbs on the run course to get you to the finish line. I like Perform and I alternate it with water at the aid stations. After a while, though, in an IM, it's true what they say. Coke is your best friend.
1. What kind of bike nutrition setup are you running? You'll see a lot of ENers running a Speedfil on the downtube and either a waterbottle cage or profile aerodrink between the handlebars. For IM racing I had all my infinit concentrated in the Speedfil and water between the bars. I'd refill the aerodrink with the first water person at an aid station and then the last person I'd take the bottle and chug water/pour on self and toss. It worked pretty well, and for a hot IMWI I didn't have a problem.
2. I find that I concentrate the infinit, so I watch the osmolality somewhat, but everytime I take a concentrated sip I follow it by a couple big sips of water. I've been fine so far.
3. Yes. I also use highest sodium in my infinit mix + S-caps every hour. This is something you'll want to test out during long rides and RRs to determine how much you'll need. See the wiki for sweat test instructions.
4. Infinit on the run = ick. Remember you don't need tons of calories on the run, I usually do water and Gu (I have a sensitive stomach). This has the added advantage of me not overeating on the run course like so many do. If I have to adjust my gameplan I usually do bananas, mostly cause by the time I'm running I don't want anything super sweet like Perform or Coke and I know the calories I'm getting (vs. the 1/4 full, 1/3 full, 4/5 full cup of whatever). Oh I also carry S-caps on the run (in a little snap box I got at the container store). Usually I only need one, but I like the extras in case my race plan goes to hell and I am out there longer than I expected (so frequently!).
I would highly highly highly recommend trying out the EN all liquid plan leading up to the race and on race day. I found it to really do a great job in controlling any potential GI issues. My last solid meal before IMOO last year was breakfast on Saturday, and I would say the only thing that actually went right for me race day WAS my nutrition. Considering I've struggled for years with GI crap, that was a vindicating feeling at the end of the day.
Sounds like you are ready to prepare for the next one!
I take s caps with my infinit (to answer your question).
I had a good bike as far as execution goes (but I admit I haven't opened my power files yet, I just know what my target gears were and what my PN was at the end of the ride - I estimated on the high end knowing my PF would keep me from running so I didn't think I had anything to lose)... since I didn't plan to run the run so I can't offer much help there (except to echo what Nate, I believe said - that based on your division place on the run you didn't do so bad given the conditions). I admit that I wonder how my run execution would have been had I planned to run the race. I'm not entirely sure I could have - I know I couldn't last year without injury but comparatively, because of the heat, I did pretty darn well, and passed a lot of carnage.
I'd also definitely reconsider your eating habits.
The Choptank is gross and its always Africa hot there. But people (me too) pr there cuz it's flat.
My only advice, big dude to big dude, is the most important thing for you to do between now and LP and Kona is to be less of a big dude, whatever it takes. I don't know your body comp but I'm willing to bet you can be leaner and lighter. I've raced at 242 and 218 and the 218 guy was waaaay happier. (I'm 6'5") My progression last year was:
Nov thru March- OS plan, 238
May- Tour de Cali big bike week- 235-229
June- Kinetic Half, Quassy Half- 230- 225
July- Roth IM- 218
I made losing weight a priority over power and pace. Everything but volume. My fitness was established in the OS. I ran and biked faster (and didn't break down) during IM plan because I was lighter and concentrated on run technique. To execute well in long course, body comp has to be good. Humbly submitted. Good luck.
cm
I am in the all liquid camp for racing, and that starts the night before. Jamba Juice for me at about 6 PM the night before (there's one right on the Palani hill 1/4 mile up from the pier). Then no nutrigain bars, no power bars, no bananas, no oranges, no nuttin if it doesn't drip on my shirt. Aid stations on the bike are every 5-7 miles apart at Kona, so no need to carry lots of fluids, just remember to drink water at each aid station on the bike. And on the run... it is VERY easy to take way too many calories in the run when you are grabbing whatever every mile. I would not carry anything, just go with a combo of water, diluted PB perform, and defizzed cola on the run, and be prudent with the perform and coke, making sure you don't get more than 200 calories an hour from them. No gels, no pretzels, no solids at all. The whole idea of your race there is to not blow up on the run - that's the route to fun.
And salt pills on the bike for the encrusted set, of course!
Finally, I endorse an outside FTP test 2-4 weeks before an IM, just to be sure of your race day gears.