NPW or Avg Watts During a Race?
I searched, didn't find the answer to this. On a course like IMCDA, what is the recommended metric to follow - Normalized Power or Avg Power? Furthermore, is IF calculated from NPW (yes, I believe)?
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I searched, didn't find the answer to this. On a course like IMCDA, what is the recommended metric to follow - Normalized Power or Avg Power? Furthermore, is IF calculated from NPW (yes, I believe)?
Comments
Ideally you want them to match with a VI of 1.0. During a race I don't pay a lot of attention to average power (no joule, so no NP). I watch real time watts and try to ride steady. At the end of the day, NP is more important because that represents your overall effort.
For immediate feedback, be looking at your watts (neither avg nor NP, but instant, or probably better, smoothed over 5 sec). I never look at or worry about my avg power, just NP. IF is NP divided by FTP. Some folks with a Joule will split the race into intervals of 30-60 minutes, to get a better look at IF on a more reall time basis, and to avoid chasing a low early IF by going too hard later on.
Jim:
Always, always, always look at current watts, not average.
Do not try to "move" your average watts or NP.
My Joule displays current watts, normalized watts, and IF (and a bunch of other stuff but this is what we're talking about here). I've lately been using Matt's excellent idea, which is to create intervals frequently so that the normalized watts and IF you see is for what you're doing RIGHT NOW. When you don't this, ie, you only look at the macro data for the entire ride, your normalized watts, average watts, and IF you're seeing in front of you becomes very "sticky:" if you're at 4hrs of a 5.5hr ride and decide you need to bump your average watts up, you will need to absolutely crush yourself to make those average watts go up just a tick = not good at all.
So on race day I'll create an interval at every aid station and manage that micro interval very well = the macro takes care of itself.
If you have not done so already, make sure you take the race execution seminar we have in the wiki. Very, very good information in there.
Rich - For current watts what record rate or smoothing factor do you use? 3 sec, 5 sec?
Thanks for the tips. I've been using the 20 min interval in my last couple years of racing with good success. It prevents me from attempting to bridge that gap between 1st hour watts and 5th hour watts for the total ride. I just stay within that 20 min box.
As an aside, the Joule manual says that the "Threshold Midpoint" used to calculate IF from NPW is the middle number between "Threshold" and "Race Pace" watts. I have found that NOT to be true. My Joule is set with a Threshold = 300 and Race Pace = 350. Midpoint would be 325 in that case and my IFs on my actual 273 FTP are maybe 1% off. Anyway, not sure if you've heard how this all works with the Joule doing the IF calc but thought I'd ask.
I think I have the smoothing set to 10secs...don't recall.
I don't set/worry about zones in the Joule. "Our" zones are not Saris/Coggan/WKO zones. I know my FTP, my 85% and 75% numbers. These and the IF in real time are all I really need.
Got it, thanks. Yes, I don't use the Zones in the Joule either. But the IF displayed on the Joule as a ratio of NPW to Threshold is based off of a Threshold number stored in the Joule itself. The Joule manual indicates that this Threshold number is arrived at by taking the midpoint of your Zones that are configured and stored in the Joule. I think this is setup one of two ways:
1. In PA when you setup your User, you can set the FTP number and then click the "Generate"button and it spits out the Coggan/WKO zones. When you sync your Joule with PA it sets that Threshold number on the Joule.
2. You can manually (in PA or on the Joule itself) set the Coggan/WKO zones and then as the manual states the "midpoint" Threshold value used for IF calcs is the middle of your Threshold and Race Pace zone.
Not sure I'm making sense here. I know I'm splitting hairs but I'd like an accurate IF displayed when I race.
I'll dick around with it some more today and let you know what I find out.
Don't do either. See the end (page 9) of this thread for how to set up Joule to properly calculate the numbers we want.
@jim- just went through this- you can learn from my frustrations. You can enter your actual FTP into power agent on the power zones tab. DONT push the "generate" button, we don't care about their zones. We only want our accurate FTP in the joule so the TSS and IF is accurate. Hit the OK button on the bottom. Then go over to the "configure device" button and click it. A page will pop up with a drop down menu for "user" click on that and pick your name. Hit the OK button on the bottom and with the Joule connected to the computer the new FTP will be downloaded into your Joule. Then you will know you have accurate IF numbers. I checked on the download procedure by changing my weight by a pound on the user screen so that I could verify that the download actually was successful.
Either I help you with your issue or I ranted on about something you already knew....let me know.
@ Steve and @ Al - This appears to have worked for me. I also changed my smoothing factor and it "took". Interestingly enough the FTP isn't displayed anywhere on the Joule device itself. It must be in the background somewhere. I will take it for a ride tomorrow. Thanks!
This thread brings up another question- to break the race into intervals as stated, do you just hit the interval button? If so does the overall ride data keep operating. Does the interval data reset all the parameters for that interval? How do you navigate between interval windows and the main dashboard?
@ Steve - here's the procedure for doing intervals during a ride:
Hit the interval button once. This will start a new interval.
Then hold the interval button down for a couple of seconds; this will give you the data display for the current interval only. Keeping hitting the interval button (short, not long) for each new interval.
That's all I intend to do during the race, for two reasons: I do better if I don't know my overall time and distance (they give you distance markers during the race) in real time. (I also don't have speed anywhere in my display options). And getting back and forth from total to interval is too confusing for my oxygen starved brain during a race.
But if you must know, the procedure for that is on page 22 of the user manual. If you can figure out how to use it effectively during a race, let me know how it's done!
@ AL- thanks, you're the man! I actually just found page 22 just before you responded. What parameters do you have on your dashboard? I am thinking Distance, Watts, Race Time, IF, NP and Kj (for nutrition purposes). I love the idea of breaking the info down to 3 different intervals. 1st- start to 21 miles (fairly flat, faster course) 2nd- mile 21 to 42 (rollers and hills, tougher) 3rd- mile 42 back to town (flat and fast) 3 very different riding styles and by seperating those intervals will keep me honest with my energy expeditures.
This worked. I entered the FTP in PA and saved it to the Joule as you described. Went for a ride and the IF is EXACT in terms of ratio of NPW to FTP. Thanks again!