Aerobar tilt??

Bob Irwin

I saw that Al mentioned aerobar tilt in the critque my fit thread.   I have my pads level from front to back (parllel to the ground).  Is there any advantage to tipping them up just a bit?  I guess I could just try it, but I'm sure someone else has already done that - we've probably tried everything with this many people that need to spend 6 hours in the aerobars on race day.

GMAN 19030

It could potentially be more comfortable but would almost certainly create a bit more drag. How much of an aero hit I couldn't say. There are some top level guys that do ride Praying Mantis style -- which is more than tipping them up just a bit.

Bob Irwin

I've seen Levi, Floyd, and one of the pro triathletes (think it might be Philip Graves) that use the praying mantis position. Wasn't thinking about anything like that - maybe jusr a couple of degrees.

Jim Yanoschik

 I am in the middle of the Macca book and he discussed this a little.  The Praying Mantis style will help cut the wind if you have a big frontal area and it helps to divert the wind around your shoulders.  But you saw that for road bikers.  Their time trials are for 30-45 miles.  Not 56 or 112 with running afterwards.  If you look at professional triathletes, most have level to the ground or a slight tilt.  Bike fit is a balance of aero versus comfort in conjunction with the rider's goals.

Coach Rich

This is very, very individual. I've been tweaking my bike here and there, now that I'm on it for the first time in forever.

• Tilted just a little bit down and I can feel myself hold myself up a bit with my shoulders. Engaging my delts
• Tilted up a bit and I feel like I lose the hand position flexibility I like to have. I move around on the bike a lot -- choke up, chocke back, slide ass back/forwards, slump in the bars or grip the bottoms...when the bars are tilted up a bit I feel I lose this.

Same with saddle tilt. Very surprising how much tilt this way or that way REALLY affects my ride and comfort on the bike.

Bottomline is I have them both, saddle and aerobar tilt, exactly where they "feel right" for me. Gonna take a marker and mark every thing up in case I need to remove parts or something. Skeered to touch it now

Al Truscott

As a general rule Ive noticed that hands higher = closing the frontal area down, and vice versa. As Ricj and others note, need to tweak this balancing comfort vs desire to get a more aggressive aero position, while also paying attnetion to power generation = hip angle.

ghernand

definitely individual, as others have said. 

for the short stuff, 40km TT, then the room for error is small.  aero penalty will be much more pronounced, so best to get in the best position and just deal with it for an hour and change.

for the long stuff, then it all comes down to what will keep you producing the necessary watts, while still staying comfortable.  mine go tilted slighlty up because when on slight descents, i feel i have better control like that over bumps, rough road.  the slight up also reduces strain on my shoulders and makes it more cozy when i tuck my head (i.e. i feel like i am in the womb! or hiding from the wind!).

however, i'll also cup my hands under the aero bars to give me a more flat forearm position when i feel like it....in other words, find what works for you and that's the best system to go with for now.  if you have a goal position that you'd like to shoot for, then slowly get there with gradual adjustments. 

TJ tolkson is another huge praying mantis guy with an engineering background and has done power and wind tunnel tests to convince himself that this position is best for him. 

jordan rapp, another guy with engineering background, has the more classic position.

Macca is all on feel, etc.  he has a much less flat back than the other guys and is always hamming it up for cameras, breaking aero, etc.

i think the conclusion is that over 112miles, there is a bigger aero window, more forgiving.  so, comfort which in turn allows you to keep producing steady watts, will be what is best, as long as you don't sit up completely, etc.

gh

 

GMAN 19030

Posted By Gilberto Hernandez on 15 Jun 2011 06:28 PM

definitely individual, as others have said. 

for the short stuff, 40km TT, then the room for error is small.  aero penalty will be much more pronounced, so best to get in the best position and just deal with it for an hour and change.

i think the conclusion is that over 112miles, there is a bigger aero window, more forgiving.  so, comfort which in turn allows you to keep producing steady watts, will be what is best, as long as you don't sit up completely, etc.

gh

 

You're sort of mincing together two different concepts - aero & comfort - that intertwine.

The aero penalty on a shorter course will actually be far less pronounced and more forgiving than a longer course because you have less time and distance for it to matter as much.  Let's say for argument's sake the aero penalty for a Praying Mantis position over a typical position is 5 seconds per mile (I just made that up but play along).  For an Oly you would have lost about 2 minutes.  For an IM you would have lost nearly 10 minutes.  That's just pure aero penalty... with numbers pulled out of my ass to be used as an example only.

That stated, the need to balance comfort vs aero is the determining factor.  The best wind tunnel position is probably not the best position for 99% of people because it's way too aggressive and we couldn't ride 56 or 112 miles in that position.  Aero doesn't mean jack if you can't ride.  For most of us, the more comfortable the position, the less aero it probably is.  It's probably more upright which creates more drag, blah, blah, blah.  That's just the science of aerodynamics at play.  Like you said though... it's the position that gets you through the ride that counts.  Less aero is usually the tradeoff.

 

mgraffeo

the level-ness of the pads is not as important as how level your forearm bones want to sit ideally. Look at the pads you've got now. Are they worn predominantly towards the back (very common), or evenly worn from front to back? For those of us (myself included) who have pads worn more on the back, it's pretty clear feedback that your arm bones are only being supported by part of the pads. If so, tilting up the bars slightly is the right thing to do. The aero penalty is pretty minimal when it fits the contour of your forearms.

ghernand

Bob: yes, i agree in terms of an OLY.  I was talking about an individual TT, where any amount of time lost due to a non aero detail will cost you.  for triathlons, where you have lots of places to make up the time, then it's a different story.

GH