Does anyone else think that Voekler could finish the tour in Yellow?
He sure looked determined and capable today. But Cadel wants to win, of course, and I don't think he will rely simply on this relatively short time trial, so he HAS to take some time off of Schlecks and Alberto. And vice versa. At some point, SOMEONE has to stop following and put in a sustained attack, and that will be that. If he expects to win, of course.
If I were Leopard Trek or BMC, I would burn up the whole EuropeCar team going up Col D'Angel on Thurs, then put Voekler in the freezer going up Izoard. Leaving the race to be won or lost on the Galibier. If they haven't got the team to do something like that, then, yeah, Voekler deserves to win.
Does anyone else think that Voekler could finish the tour in Yellow?
He sure looked determined and capable today. But Cadel wants to win, of course, and I don't think he will rely simply on this relatively short time trial, so he HAS to take some time off of Schlecks and Alberto. And vice versa. At some point, SOMEONE has to stop following and put in a sustained attack, and that will be that. If he expects to win, of course.
If I were Leopard Trek or BMC, I would burn up the whole EuropeCar team going up Col D'Angel on Thurs, then put Voekler in the freezer going up Izoard. Leaving the race to be won or lost on the Galibier. If they haven't got the team to do something like that, then, yeah, Voekler deserves to win.
For Cadel to win, he would actually have to make an attack (for the first time in his career) or not choke on the final TT - (ask Carlos Sastre about that).
Voekler sure DOES look strong. I still have a feeling Andy will come up with something in the Alps...I kind of want to see Voekler hang on to it though. He looked good today.
Ok, so I have to ask this. What is the benefit of having your team go to the front and push the pace? I am talking about up a climb. Is there a huge draft effect going up? I thought not but could be wrong. To me, it seems if I put my team on the front and drive it, I still need to ride that pace. As do my competitors who are sitting behind me. So now you come to the time when all of my teammates are gone and it is just me and my competitors. We all did basically equal work no? So now it's just a cat and mouse game of attack sit up, repeat. I get that you up the pace to get rid of the lesser riders. But how does it effect the the race for the main GC contenders? Is having teammates a mental thing? I can't imagine going up a 10% hill gives much of a draft but what the hell do I know about bike racing. As for my team, I can't look. I realized after about 2 days I screwed up and picked the wrong Frenchie. I wanted Voeckler but picked Chavenel by mistake. Have always loved Voeckler just couldn't remember his name. Until the tour started. Oh well, it's all fun. He is riding quite well. Lots of balls on him. The main GC guys better start worrying about him and less about where they stand in relation to each other because he isn't giving that jersey up without a huge fight.
A lot of times they are still going fast enough to draft off. You have your 2 or 3 domestiques crushing themselves to set a pace of say 14 or 15 early, you can snuggle in behind them and then slingshot off of them when they crack. It is also to set an early fast pace that your team's climber/gc guy rides to and which challenges the others to hang onto and try to match. These guys are going fast up these hills. It's sick.
Yes, there's a draft, but it's also about pacing. Just like in running, having someone else pace makes it easier for the team leader to keep up that pace and saves energy for when the domestique runs out of gas and it's up to the leader to finish the climb. Lance had his own in the day: Landis, Azevedo, Heras, Big George, etc. It was nice seeing CVV tow Tommy D up the Beille yesterday even though he couldn't quite finish with the leaders.
And I think it would be awesome for Voeckler to take yellow all the way to Paris, but I think the contenders were holding back a bit yesterday. No one looked like they really wanted to get away, so Sanchez got tired of their cat and mouse games and took off.
For Leopard-Trek, the idea is to get rid of ALL of the other GC contenders' aides. It didn't work, as Basso still had Szymd ( can somebody please buy that guy a vowel?) and Voeckler had Rolland (the reason he's still around) last Thursday. Then, when attacks come, the GC guy can follow his Lt who does the initial answer. Or, in Basso's case, the Lt. can put in a sustained strong pull for a long, but limited time, to shed as many of the other guys as possible.
I've found when I'm going up a hil atr 13-15 mph on a -5 % slope, I do get benefit from being behind someone. That 2-5% is just enough to allow a weaker rider (like Voeckler) to say with the stronger ones.
In theory, LT should still have two guys (the bros) who can play with the field. Good plan, but it didn't work, so now there needs to be either a plan B in team tactics, or else someone has to do a long sustained attack instead of this punch and rest stuff. I think LT has to make a decision re: Frank vs Andy, and burn up one on the final climb Thurs or Fri, for the sake of the other. Because the race seems cleaner (drugs-wise), no one has a huge chemical advantage anymore. And people are smarter now than 15 years ago in training specifics for the classic race tactics.
I agree, if Cadel wants to win, he has to attack. He seems to want to win, and though he may not realise it yet, he is IS capable of that attack. Not that I want to see him win. I do NOT want to listen to his squeaky whiny voice on interviews; Andy Schleck's Euro basso profundo is much more pleasing; as is Voeckler's charming French accented word salad.
Fred Velo is done. Like Homer Simpson, he had a good run. I hava no climbers left, except Andy. I see Zach and Nemo battling it out in the Alps. If I didn't lose Horner and Gadret I'd be in it to win it. Au revoir and bon chance!
Still a looooong way to Paris- but I admit, I'm feeling fairly good about my chances. I am shocked there are still so many in the GC so close together. You'd think someone would have either attacked or cracked this week. It certainly makes for an interesting race- but it's totally stressing me out!
Where's Jens to slap Tyler F around? Whiney baby got beat again by the other whiney baby Cav and whiney baby 1 says whiney baby 2 shouldn't even be in the race anymore as he got towed by the team car back into the grupetto and made the time cut off. Perhaps, but I think ya gotta zip it and take your beating. No?
Saw this morning Tyler basically did a mia culpa on his post Stage comments from the other day. Interestingly enough, Cav backed him up. I guess Cavendish knows all too well how hard it can be to control your tempe and say the right stuff with cameras in your face just moments after a hard fought sprint.
I loved Biobke's comments - paraphrasing - "If they shoved a camera in my face at the end of a Sprint I would have been kicked out of the sport a long time ago"
Ok so here is another cycling tactic that I don't seem to get. Sprints. I get the lead out train. Totally. But why only one? It seems HTC has it down, plus they have the fastest guy in Cav. No one can catch him. So why do other sprinters try to grab his wheel? Why doesn't say Garmin have it's own train a few meters away? This way Farrar can just go and not wait for Cav and then try to catch him. I mean, it's pretty damn obvious that he can't beat Cav the way they have been trying yet they continue to keep trying. It's insanity.
Not every team has or spends the funds to get stage wins - that seems to be their sole focus (esp after some of their GC contenders haven't started strong).
If you cannot afford your own train, borrow someone else's! And then hope and pray you can whip around Cav at the last minute to pip him at the line. Not likely, but you can hope!
Lead out trains - the only other teams with strong enough sprinters to justify a train are Omega Pharma-Lotto (Greiple) and Garmin-Cervelo (the Wenatchee Whiz). IIRC, Omega was all occupied with getting Gilbert going into green, and Van den Broeck on the podium, kind of at odds with Greiple's needs. Ditto Garmin and keeping Hushovd in Yellow. Garmin has the horses, but chose not to use them.
Speaking of today's race: I hope it's a preview of Thursday - finally, a man and a team willing to go for it - Cadel and BMC. Even though I'd rather listen to elevator music for 24 hours than see Evans win in Paris. I like people who throw caution to the winds and ignore conventional wisdom, like Voeckler and Contador. They'll probably end up 2nd and 3rd - in what order I still don't know.
Waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, waaaaaa! Not a good descender, not a good time trialer, but he still expects to win the Tour? And AC left his stash at home and is STILL sticking it to him.
C'mon Andy! Everyone has to ride the same course. Stfu and htfu. You're Fred Velo's only chance now!
"What was clear was that up the steeper parts of the last climb and down the highly technical descent the Schlecks did not have what it takes to win this Tour. They may have a strong team but they aren’t prepared to take chances like Evans and Contador. And this is a Tour de France where taking tactical risks is just as important, or perhaps more important, than being the best climber or the fastest time trialist."
My current prediction for the podium: Evans, Contador, Sanchez! Sammy wants to get back the podium place Menchov stole from him last year in the penultimate time trial.
Waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, waaaaaa! Not a good descender, not a good time trialer, but he still expects to win the Tour? And AC left his stash at home and is STILL sticking it to him.
C'mon Andy! Everyone has to ride the same course. Stfu and htfu. You're Fred Velo's only chance now!
RIGHT?!?
How can you claim to be a fantastic "all arounder" if you can't TT and you can't descend!!!
You know me, I'm crying in my beer (or glass of whine as the case may be). Frankly, I think they all hedged too many bets in the Pyrenees just marking each other. That was when Contador looked weak, and is where they should gotten either Andy or Frank a lot farther ahead in the standings. But hindsight is 20/20 as they say. At least if Cadel wins it will be an American team on the podium.
I went back and looked at my scratch notes when drafting my original pics only to find Voeckler on the list of potential wild cards. But I think he was too pricey given my desire to have a few others (like Cavendish) on the team. What a mistake!
No matter the competition, ya wanna win, ya gotta take risks. It used to be taking risks with chemistry - your own and the lab. Now, it's tactical risks, like trying to get time on a downhill in the rain. I hope AC throws caution to the wind and just keeps riding hard no matter whom he's dragging up the Galibier. He needs 90 seconds relative to Evans to have a chance to win in the TT on Saturday. He may not do it, but he will go down fighting all the way, that's why he's my team leader this year.
If Voeckler's still in yellow after tomorrow, he's on the podium.
We see some attacks and some cracks today from anyone with a podium dream. If you're 1-5 minutes down how can you not?
I would love to see Voeckler hold on. It would be huge for the tour to have a Frenchman there after all the American team money coming in and dominating, along with their "medical programs". I think the parity we're seeing in this tour has everything to do with a much cleaner peleton. AC is hurting without his tainted meat, but still a warrior. And I don't think anyone is going to have that Floyd day where they simply ride away from everyone.
I do think it's pretty damn cool that a wildcard team has been the one pulling in front and protecting the yellow jersey all week! Yohann Gene is my newest favorite rider and is closely reaching tour boyfriend status. I'd ride on his wheel any day!
BTW, if anyone isn't at home watching the fireworks on Versus right now, you can track online via text at uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/. Just click on the link that says "Tour de France: Stage ## LIVE"
I do this every day I'm in office, then go home and watch the recap broadcast at 7pm central. It's kinda a spoiler, but I want to know what's going on!
Oh......My......GOD!!!! I am doing the happy dance! But really- anything could happen tomorrow. Andy is spent. No way he can pull that off a second day in a row. Frank may be in a better position to attack tomorrow. I can't wait!
.....At some point, SOMEONE has to stop following and put in a sustained attack, and that will be that. If he expects to win, of course.
If I were Leopard Trek or BMC, I would burn up the whole EuropeCar team going up Col D'Angel on Thurs, then put Voekler in the freezer going up Izoard. Leaving the race to be won or lost on the Galibier. If they haven't got the team to do something like that, then, yeah, Voekler deserves to win.
Wow, that was ... special today. As a fan, not as a fantasy team DS, I was in heaven today. Like I said yesterday, if ya wanna win, ya gotta take risks, and that was the biggest risk we've seen since ...? In a way, I was glad to see Andy starting to lose it in the last 3-4 km. That told me this was not a repeat of Floyd's "risk" in 2006. Andy told Craig Hummer, "All I was paying attention to was the pain in my legs, and believe me, there was a lot of it.
Tomorrow, of course, since the ride is so short, the plan should be to put the LT team at the front, burn them off to the base of the Alpe, then send the Schleck boys off, not the thrust and pause stuff from last week, but just Frank going off with Andy behind, not looking back until they hit the top. They still need time over Cadel for the TT, and guess who's still in yellow and could well end up on the podium?
Comments
He sure looked determined and capable today. But Cadel wants to win, of course, and I don't think he will rely simply on this relatively short time trial, so he HAS to take some time off of Schlecks and Alberto. And vice versa. At some point, SOMEONE has to stop following and put in a sustained attack, and that will be that. If he expects to win, of course.
If I were Leopard Trek or BMC, I would burn up the whole EuropeCar team going up Col D'Angel on Thurs, then put Voekler in the freezer going up Izoard. Leaving the race to be won or lost on the Galibier. If they haven't got the team to do something like that, then, yeah, Voekler deserves to win.
For Cadel to win, he would actually have to make an attack (for the first time in his career) or not choke on the final TT - (ask Carlos Sastre about that).
As for my team, I can't look. I realized after about 2 days I screwed up and picked the wrong Frenchie. I wanted Voeckler but picked Chavenel by mistake. Have always loved Voeckler just couldn't remember his name. Until the tour started. Oh well, it's all fun. He is riding quite well. Lots of balls on him. The main GC guys better start worrying about him and less about where they stand in relation to each other because he isn't giving that jersey up without a huge fight.
And I think it would be awesome for Voeckler to take yellow all the way to Paris, but I think the contenders were holding back a bit yesterday. No one looked like they really wanted to get away, so Sanchez got tired of their cat and mouse games and took off.
For Leopard-Trek, the idea is to get rid of ALL of the other GC contenders' aides. It didn't work, as Basso still had Szymd ( can somebody please buy that guy a vowel?) and Voeckler had Rolland (the reason he's still around) last Thursday. Then, when attacks come, the GC guy can follow his Lt who does the initial answer. Or, in Basso's case, the Lt. can put in a sustained strong pull for a long, but limited time, to shed as many of the other guys as possible.
I've found when I'm going up a hil atr 13-15 mph on a -5 % slope, I do get benefit from being behind someone. That 2-5% is just enough to allow a weaker rider (like Voeckler) to say with the stronger ones.
In theory, LT should still have two guys (the bros) who can play with the field. Good plan, but it didn't work, so now there needs to be either a plan B in team tactics, or else someone has to do a long sustained attack instead of this punch and rest stuff. I think LT has to make a decision re: Frank vs Andy, and burn up one on the final climb Thurs or Fri, for the sake of the other. Because the race seems cleaner (drugs-wise), no one has a huge chemical advantage anymore. And people are smarter now than 15 years ago in training specifics for the classic race tactics.
I agree, if Cadel wants to win, he has to attack. He seems to want to win, and though he may not realise it yet, he is IS capable of that attack. Not that I want to see him win. I do NOT want to listen to his squeaky whiny voice on interviews; Andy Schleck's Euro basso profundo is much more pleasing; as is Voeckler's charming French accented word salad.
Whiney baby got beat again by the other whiney baby Cav and whiney baby 1 says whiney baby 2 shouldn't even be in the race anymore as he got towed by the team car back into the grupetto and made the time cut off.
Perhaps, but I think ya gotta zip it and take your beating. No?
Btw, Team Glynn is loaded for the Alps.
The Alps should be fun.
If you cannot afford your own train, borrow someone else's! And then hope and pray you can whip around Cav at the last minute to pip him at the line. Not likely, but you can hope!
Lead out trains - the only other teams with strong enough sprinters to justify a train are Omega Pharma-Lotto (Greiple) and Garmin-Cervelo (the Wenatchee Whiz). IIRC, Omega was all occupied with getting Gilbert going into green, and Van den Broeck on the podium, kind of at odds with Greiple's needs. Ditto Garmin and keeping Hushovd in Yellow. Garmin has the horses, but chose not to use them.
Speaking of today's race: I hope it's a preview of Thursday - finally, a man and a team willing to go for it - Cadel and BMC. Even though I'd rather listen to elevator music for 24 hours than see Evans win in Paris. I like people who throw caution to the winds and ignore conventional wisdom, like Voeckler and Contador. They'll probably end up 2nd and 3rd - in what order I still don't know.
Waaaaaa, waaaaaaa, waaaaaa! Not a good descender, not a good time trialer, but he still expects to win the Tour? And AC left his stash at home and is STILL sticking it to him.
C'mon Andy! Everyone has to ride the same course. Stfu and htfu. You're Fred Velo's only chance now!
"What was clear was that up the steeper parts of the last climb and down the highly technical descent the Schlecks did not have what it takes to win this Tour. They may have a strong team but they aren’t prepared to take chances like Evans and Contador. And this is a Tour de France where taking tactical risks is just as important, or perhaps more important, than being the best climber or the fastest time trialist."
My current prediction for the podium: Evans, Contador, Sanchez! Sammy wants to get back the podium place Menchov stole from him last year in the penultimate time trial.
RIGHT?!?
How can you claim to be a fantastic "all arounder" if you can't TT and you can't descend!!!
I went back and looked at my scratch notes when drafting my original pics only to find Voeckler on the list of potential wild cards. But I think he was too pricey given my desire to have a few others (like Cavendish) on the team. What a mistake!
No matter the competition, ya wanna win, ya gotta take risks. It used to be taking risks with chemistry - your own and the lab. Now, it's tactical risks, like trying to get time on a downhill in the rain. I hope AC throws caution to the wind and just keeps riding hard no matter whom he's dragging up the Galibier. He needs 90 seconds relative to Evans to have a chance to win in the TT on Saturday. He may not do it, but he will go down fighting all the way, that's why he's my team leader this year.
If Voeckler's still in yellow after tomorrow, he's on the podium.
I would love to see Voeckler hold on. It would be huge for the tour to have a Frenchman there after all the American team money coming in and dominating, along with their "medical programs". I think the parity we're seeing in this tour has everything to do with a much cleaner peleton. AC is hurting without his tainted meat, but still a warrior. And I don't think anyone is going to have that Floyd day where they simply ride away from everyone.
BTW, if anyone isn't at home watching the fireworks on Versus right now, you can track online via text at uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/. Just click on the link that says "Tour de France: Stage ## LIVE"
I do this every day I'm in office, then go home and watch the recap broadcast at 7pm central. It's kinda a spoiler, but I want to know what's going on!
Kudos, Nemo. You're out Schlecking me. And you've got the tt covered and final sprint as well.
I am really bummed not to have Chris Horner out there climbing. It was his chance to shine. At 39 he's probably done.
Wow, that was ... special today. As a fan, not as a fantasy team DS, I was in heaven today. Like I said yesterday, if ya wanna win, ya gotta take risks, and that was the biggest risk we've seen since ...? In a way, I was glad to see Andy starting to lose it in the last 3-4 km. That told me this was not a repeat of Floyd's "risk" in 2006. Andy told Craig Hummer, "All I was paying attention to was the pain in my legs, and believe me, there was a lot of it.
Tomorrow, of course, since the ride is so short, the plan should be to put the LT team at the front, burn them off to the base of the Alpe, then send the Schleck boys off, not the thrust and pause stuff from last week, but just Frank going off with Andy behind, not looking back until they hit the top. They still need time over Cadel for the TT, and guess who's still in yellow and could well end up on the podium?