Run Test vs running after riding -- a mental thing?
OK, so I did my run test this morning and was about 4 minutes slower that last test in April (32 and change vs 28 and change). Could be that is true since April 30 HIM, haven't really pushed and am getting ready to drop into intermediate HIM 12 week program in run-up to Augusta.
My breathing was heavy from the beginning, but heart rate average was way down (158 this time vs 168 last time and 172 the previous time). That leads me to believe I wasn't running hard enough only when I tried to move my legs faster they just didn't want to turn over and my breathing went high, but HR didn't really also jump up.
I have to admit, I hate the run test just by itself, don't mind the bike test at all.
The thing is this, I almost always run better after the bike than just by itself. Saturday after my 3 hour ride, instead of the 30 minute brick I decided to see what I could do in a 5K TT and went just under 28 minutes, without really feeling like I was pushing it. The ABP ride on Sunday was fine and it didn't seem to effect anything.
So I am wondering a couple of things:
- Do I have a mental block that is keeping me from being able to run faster? Is there anything folks can recommend that might help me break through this mental barrier?
- Is there something I need to do in training that will help me with the physiological side of running faster? Haven't done much VO2 max work since dropping out of OS for the last six weeks before the April 30th HIM.
Thanks,
Paul
Comments
something is wrong. It is NOT easier to run a 5k after a 3 hour bike. Not for anyone under any circumstances. You need to figure out whatever the problem is, put it in a bag, take it out back and stomp on it til its in a million pieces. Sure it sucks running fast by yourself for a 5k test. For the first couple years we did all 10k testing. That sucked a lot more. You know what else sucks, running 13.1 or 26.2 after biking and swimming. Racing is hard. Racing hard is even harder. Practicing suffereing while training hard will serve you well on race day. As a wise person once told me, it ain't all roses and podium girls, sometimes is just sucks!
With that being said, the devils advocate in me thinks that after the first mile of your standalone run test the system should be all warmed up and the last 2 miles should be able to run at you 28 min demonstrated pace. That is unless you went out to hard in that first mile and never recovered from to fast an initial pace.
The good news is you have shown you can run a 28 min 5K. And you are likely able to run a standalone 5K faster that.
I have to agree with the warm up part as I do run faster after a good solid bike (not 3 hours). I would say make sure you are good and ready before you start and then hit it.
Thanks all
@ Chris -- I have always resonated better with coaches that just hit me with it ... what I got from your info is, "Suck it up, figure it out, and pound it!" Got it and thanks.
@ Matt -- pt well taken as I tend to do really poorly at warming up and I turn 49 next month.
@ Richard -- about 10 degress difference, but probably at least 40% increase in humidity as I live in coastal SC. However, Saturday when I ran it was 95 and 90% humidity and it was only 80 this morning.
@ Steven -- yeah I gotta figure out how to warm my legs up.
A little more background
I can't help but think part of this is mental and has to do with my not wanting to re-injure my knee. Up until about 1.5 years ago, I had a 13 year hiatus from tri's, four bike accidents (two with cars and two with railroad tracks), three left knee surgeries, and three kids with extracurriculars all combined to my getting way out of this. I raced tri's from sprint through IM from 1987-2000, without a connected left ACL (unbeknowest to me). It caused all kinds of complications which were kind of brought to a head right after I did Great Floridian in 1998. After the high tibial osteotomy in 2007 the doctor didn't think I would ever run.
So my running goals have all been around not causing structural problems AND I know I run differently than I did and will never be able to run truly fast again.
The above has me thinking that part of me is afraid to push too hard. I'm just trying to see if anyone has any ideas on how I test those waters. During the Dec OS I did not have any issues with the FTP or VO2 work causing knee problems.
Paul how do you do at 5K races? a little cheating but you still gotta do the work.
Good discussion. When I do my last, final 5k test, I'm either going to do it in a race or make Gilberto put on a bunny suit and run in front of me. I definitely do better, on the run anyway, when I run with/around other people.
@Rich: i don't know about the bunny suit, but i can pace you to a good time.
@Paul:
-read "Born to Run" if you haven't done so already;
-my warm up for the 5km test on the track is 2miles at a VERY easy pace, then one mile where I stride the straights and jog the turns, then a light stretch until my HR goes down....then the 5km test. this will help the warming up issue and get your HR up to the level it will be at during the 5k. yes, the warm up takes longer than the test.
-i have a garmin and set it to beep and display my 0.25 mile times. this keeps me on pace early, so that i don't go too fast too soon.
-use the warm up above for the workouts where you do 1mile repeats in the training plan. when you do the mile repeats, shoot for a pace that is just a tad faster than the mile pace for your ideal 5km test. by doing this, your body and mind becomes accustomed to the brisk pace necessary for the 5km Vdot. you can't go faster than your current fitness, so this way you get a good idea of what you can do.
GH
thanks all
don't know about Gilbert in a bunny suit, but what about one of the chicas?
seriously thanks for all the ideas and I am going to try the "full" warm-up next week and re-test.
@Gilbert have been hearing about "Born to Run" for a while ... ... time to read it.
x 2 on "Born to Run" a must read.
I have to warm up for 30 minutes before I can even come close to a good test. (45 years old) I am just too stiff the first 30 minutes. I always have negative splits on my training runs.
It is probably worth considering the mental aspect a bit here: I hate running 5ks. I think it is because I've taught my brain to think they hurt and I should be crying by the end of them. All of my fastest 5ks have been when I've decided I just want to run fast and I don't care what my time is. Sometimes, this is because I'm frustrated a stupid, bad last run workout. Sometimes, running just feels awesome. Yesterday, off a bike ride that had me home early because of a mechanical, I got a four-point VDOT jump, running what I thought was a brick run, no Garmin, and just keeping up with my running partner.
I think we have to all find our styles of running speed and agression.
Paul,
For me I had a challenge the other way and found the last 10 minutes of an FTP hard to push. In HS I ran some cross country because I was in good shape and learned to push myself to the edge running. What I did was evaluate how I felt on a 5k tests and the last KM especially in the last 5 minutes when things get tough. I then had to apply that level of exertion to a FTP test for the bike. If I did not feel that way at the end I knew there was something on the table and needed to push harder.
Now as for the injury that's different mentally than not pushing your self. I know when I blew out the tendons and legiments in my left foot it took me a long time to really use that leg 100%. For me Iworked on strengh in the gym to ensure balance between legs, then got out running. When I was injury free for some time I started running more and added the speed setting goals for my training and a few races. I also evalued the injury and how the leg was feeling daily early on. I was very tentative early on but realized that the injury had healed and I could continue to push harder.
Gordon