IMCDA, next year's IM..... and age. Training advice.
· So I finished IMCDA. It just took me a long time (15:22). My training had gone well, so this was a big disappointment. To put this in perspective my PR is 13:00, at 62; I am now 67.
· The swim was not too bad for me (1:40). The cold did not bother me. However I did find it very physical out there.
· My bike was very controlled. I kept my NP at 138 watts (marginally above my objective of 135). My VI was 1.12 (I know, I know). Unfortunately, my speed (15.7 mph) was considerably slower than I had managed in training over the last few weeks (at 135 watts). As a result my TSS was high at 300. Nevertheless, I felt very confident going into the run.
· I ran the first six miles at 10:30, my goal pace. At mile six my stomach completely closed down. For the next 20 miles I walked, retched and ran. I met lots of interesting people out there but that was not why I went to CDA!
· I took in 1800 calories on the bike. I used concentrated CarboPro with plenty of water. But clearly something went badly wrong with my nutrition.
· I am going to do an Olympic in September and a HIM in October (see my training plan, just posted on the Macro thread) . Next year I will do another IM. I want to significantly improve on this year’s result. I am totally sold on the EN training philosophy and I will use the intermediate OS/IM plans again. Clearly I need to experiment with alternative nutrition strategies. Any ideas?
· But what really concerns me is, with increasing age, my overall stamina is declining (not so much in training but in racing long) and, what little upper-body strength I had, is rapidly disappearing. I should welcome any practical advice on how best to supplement my training, particularly in the Winter OS, to try to stop (or reverse) this decline.
Comments
Adrian - there isn't a lot of experience out there for us to go on. I've been paying close attention to the 60/70+ AG IM racers for a few years now, trying to learn what is possible. First of all, at our ages, it's more about just avoiding injuries and chronic illness as much as anything. Second, you clearly have a faster IM in you than you showed @ CDA, and you have identified a good place to look, which is nutrition on the bike, to allow you to run at a steady pace the whole way.
Just like everything else, our GI absorption slows down as we age, so I expect to take in fewer calories than might seem reasonable on the bike. I generally do fine in the 1100-1400 range for a 6 hour bike, and barely made it to 1500 on my ride this year of about 6:45. On the first half of the bike, I go easy on total fluids at a race like CDA, where it is not warm until after noon or so. And on the second half of the bike, I pay close attention to stomach sensations of fullness. I err on the side of too little rather than too much caloric intake then.
To me, the key to a successful run is starting the run with a compliant GI tract, so I can start taking a lot of fluids right away. Running slow at the start helps me do that.
As to the question "How Fast Do Old Men Slow Down", there is actually an article written about that (with that title) by an economist in the mid 90s. who studied marathon times. (I've lost the link, but Google the title, and the author: Ray C. Fair, of Yale). He discovered two things: the rate of slowing down is SLOWER the LONGER the distance of the race (we lose speed faster than we lose "endurance"); and the rate of slowing down ACCELERATES as we age. In our 50s, we can expect to slow down about 0.5% per year; in our 60s, @ close to 1% per year. I don't even want to tell you what happens in the 70s.
Finally, Lew Hollander, one of the oldest ever Kona finishers, did a little study of his own, and has predicted that the oldest a man can expect to finish in under 17 hours there is age 82 (he is 80). And he says one of his secrets to "go anaerobic", even if just for a little bit, every day.
I thought I had a good formula for training and race execution going: from age 58 - 61, at IM CDA, I went 11:41, 11:29, 11:42, 11:36, basically following EN plans. And at IM AZ, I went 10:55 @ 59 & 60. I'm back on the saddle now, I believe, and will see what happens there in November with a full training cycle instead of the mishmash I had to do for CDA. But I have no illusions about staying the same speed over the next 5 years. My goal for age 60 was to break 12 hours @ IM CDA; now I think it's reasonable to have the same goal for age 65 @ IM AZ.
Two other little "secrets" I've used - I consistently (over years) did a lot of extra, low effort biking, like biking to work or to workouts, or on multi-day bike tours with family/friends. And I try to "negative split" any workout I am doing - always try to go harder/faster in the second half than in the first of any individual intervals, or set of intervals.
Adrian,
Were you using the CarboPro powder in concentrated form? If so, that does not conatin any electrolytes. You may be aware of that but you only mention CP and water. People commonly mix it with a sports drink or use electrolyte tablets. CarboPro 1200 is a different product that does contains electrolytes.
Matt
For me this year has been almost exclusively short, high intensity riding/racing. I have read that as we age this is the kind of work that really pays off, and/or keeps the big athletic fade at bay.
Recently, I have had several opportunities to do long efforts recently and I have to say, I was very pleased with the results. One was a century ride in the mountains. In the past, this particular ride has always been a long day, and hard no matter how it's sliced. This time I finished very fresh and the crux climbs went swimmingly.
The other effort was a 2 day mountain climb in the Tetons through snow and up technical rock. I was worried about my fitness as it has been 95% bike and not much over 2.5 hours. Again, the longer slower effort went very well. I climbed with my son (17) and my niece and nephew (20 and 17) and they are all fit and did well. The difference is that I was hobbling around for 2 days after and they were out doing their run workouts for school as though it never happened. It was a vivid reminder about recovery needs. Youth is wasted on the young.
So my N=1 experience says high intensity is (even more so) the ticket for the elders and then lots of care taken in between to recover. This in between time is where we fall short, trying to execute EN plans tailored for the youngers.
I have found that as I age (currently 60.75) there really is a fine line between pushing hard and long and going over the edge. I must watch and measure myself regularly and back off when necessary. Watching my WKO+ PMC numbers help.
The other thing I wonder about for you is rather than measuring total calories per the bike split, how are you doing on calories per hour? Careful portioning of your calories per hour, if you are not already doing this, could help resolve some of those issues.
I also try to lift at least a couple of times per week, as well as a solid core/ab workout twice a week as well.
As Al said, we really are in a bit of uncharted territory here in measuring endurance results as we age. There are those like Al on the pointy edge of things, and then there are many of us who are more middle of the pack. I do find that if I am not careful, I will beat myself up a bit, as younger stronger riders and athletes cruise by me. At that point I must measure my efforts against myself vs. measuring against those hard bodies a couple or three decades younger than me.
I have used CarboPro powder (successfully, up to this race) as a concentrate. I add Endurolyte powder for my electroytes. For IMCDA I reckoned on 250 cal, 600 mg Na / hour. I find I can just about tolerate CarboPro. Other products, I have tried, are too sweet for me for a long race. But maybe I should try CarboPro 1200. And I'll experiment with taking in less on the bike, as Al suggests. That makes a lot of sense.
Interestingly, I have found training with the EN Intermediate plan, demanding but manageable. I certainly could do more anaerobic intervals as you suggest. I think things are falling apart when I start going really long. And this is not helped by my apparent inability to get my VI under control.
I would be really interested to know what any of you are doing in the way of weight/core strength training. Do any of you have a decent reference for me?
I was an unhappy camper when I started this thread. Already your replies have motivated me to keep trying to beat this age thing. Thanks.
Adrian - here's what I do, which I've evolved since I started weight training while a collegiate swimmer 45 years ago. A couple of months a year, mainly Dec/Jan, and again in July (basically between more formal S/B/R training), I lift weight 2-3 x per week, and try to build some "strength". There are multiple studies which show that anyone of any age who has not been lifting weights can build both muscle and strength by starting a program. To me, the simpler, the better. I have a small stable of exercises, which vary slightly depending on what the gym d'jour has available. I do leg squats (prefer the machine where I am lying back and pushing the weights above me). I start with my body weight, and try to build over 2 months to 2.5-3 x my body weight. Usually 2-5 sets of 15 >> 6 reps with increasing weights. The only other leg exercises I do are leg extensions (the machine usually has you sitting down and straightening your legs against a bar with resistence) and hamstring curls. Both are with about 40% of my body weight. Upper body exercises for me include a "bench press machine" and a "lats pull down", as well as shoulder raises, arm curls and arm extensions (biceps and triceps). When I'm "in season" and doing more biking, I drop down to 1-2 x per week, and switch to a "super slow" model - 1 set of 4 reps on each exercise, each rep taking 30 seconds to complete. Done that way, my full routine takes less than 30 minutes.
For core, I do what I tell my patients to do: lie down on your back, knees up, hands crossed over your chest. Lift you shoulders off the ground while trying to keep the small of your back flat on the ground. Go back down slowly, and at the end, lift the small of your back up off the ground. I just do 2 x 20 of these, taking as long as I can to complete the set - the longer, the better. If you want to work your back, just flip over on your stomach, lying flat, put your hands in the same position, and lift shoulders off the ground. Another one I do is what's called a "Captain's Chair", which is a contraption some gyms have. I'm basically supporting myself on my forearms, which are resting horizontally on the frame. My back is supported, but my legs are dangling free. I try to keep my knees straight, and slowly raise my feet to waist level. 3 x 8-12 of those are enough to send me to the locker room.
There's all sorts of balls and boards and things which people use to work the core, but I go for the simplicity, and the knowledge that if I'm running and swimming properly, I'm working my core constantly that way.
Emphasis - there are numerous medical studies which demonstrate that, if we start slowly and progress prudently, we will not hurt ourselves, not matter what our age, if we do weight training exercises and high intensity biking and running. Having said that, anyone with a chronic illness or cardiovascular problems (high blood pressure, prior heart attack, angina, etc) should be doing this with the supervision of an understanding physician - meaning someone who believes exercise is the best medicine.
Adrain - I agree with the above comments. It seems like the general themes of still need to go anaerobic, get plenty of rest (especially between intervals), and do weigh training 2-3X per week will help you stay strong. I believe that as we age the weight training becomes even more important to retain over all strength. I follow a program similar to Al's as i do about 10 exercises ( i think I got them from an article by Mark Allen "Weight Training for Triathletes") but I think I'll have to try the "Captain's Chair". I don't do really heavy weights anymore but focus on doing the reps slowly. I think the key is that I stay consistent with it year round, just scale it back the week before a race. Also, on days that I don't do weight training at the gym, I'll still do about 40 old fashion push ups, situps and squats. Some times i don't feel like doing them after a run or a long bike run, but I know that consistency is what matters, so I force myself to knock em out.
Thank you all for your help.
Re: The daily strength, the last 8 weeks I have been doing 2 sets of 30 pushups, 100 crunches/leg lifts/etc until failure, then using my swim cords I do: 20 upright rows, 20 bent over rows, 20 curls, 20 lateral raises (shoulders). It takes a total of 20' during SportsCenter in the AM but really has made a difference in my running form and ability to stay aero longer.