Adding a 3rd 6hr bike?

Michael Johnson

doing my 8th IM at IM LOU

Did my 1st RR last weekend. (not great watts....)

Considering doing another 6hr Bike (with a short run....1-2 miles) this weekend to make a 3rd 6hr ride in the schedule. Another RR is scheduling in 2 more weeks.

I have never run well during the IMs in the past, so trying to mix things up alittle to see if this could help my performance.

Thoughts?

kurshing

Keep it down at race pace, after hitting your prescribed workout, and you should be good to go. Be careful not to go too far if you aren't feeling strong, and don't jeapordize your workouts the few days afterward.

Coach Rich

At this point I think it's valuable to accummulate time at race intensity and in your race position, if you have the resources to make that happen.

That said, if you do the MS stuff and then "just" add time on the back end...pretty sure you're gonna be well north of 300 TSS for a 6hr ride. If it were me, I'd say "I'm gonna ride 6hrs," make 70-75% time your priority, then do any extra credit Z3-4 stuff in the second half of the ride, as you feel like it.

Given the heat you're having, I'd also consider running before the bike, 30-40', vs off the bike. I'm sure you're getting more than enough heat training in ALL of your session.

Short story, a 6hr >300 TSS ride, in the heat, followed by a run at 12-1pm in crazy heat could likely significantly impact your downstream session.

Matt Samojeden

Michael, 2X on Rich's comment of a 6 HR ride and a 1 HR run in the heat will toast you for 2 days. From reading other posts, my sense is you want to get more confident with your run off of the bike. If that is correct, let me suggest a outside the box day. 1 HR hide at 75% then 20 min run, 2 HR ride at 75%, 30 min run, 1 HR ride at 80% ( if heat allows) then a last 20 min run. All runs at race pace with the heat factored in. The point here is I doubt you are missing base endurance, but your body is not happy making the bike to run transition. By doing the 3 bricks back to back the body has 3X more experience with that transition. Just a thought.

Matt Samojeden

Michael, added comment (can't edit on iPad?) , one of the key reasons we do a RR day is to get nutrition and pacing dialed in. My bet you have that covered. So the approach above focus on your concern of running well off of the bike. If a day like that goes well it may just give you the mental anchor that " I can run off of the bike" that you are looking for. We know the mental piece can be a huge factor.

jburbatt

Posted By Matt Samojeden on 21 Jul 2011 08:33 PM

Michael, 2X on Rich's comment of a 6 HR ride and a 1 HR run in the heat will toast you for 2 days. From reading other posts, my sense is you want to get more confident with your run off of the bike. If that is correct, let me suggest a outside the box day. 1 HR hide at 75% then 20 min run, 2 HR ride at 75%, 30 min run, 1 HR ride at 80% ( if heat allows) then a last 20 min run. All runs at race pace with the heat factored in. The point here is I doubt you are missing base endurance, but your body is not happy making the bike to run transition. By doing the 3 bricks back to back the body has 3X more experience with that transition. Just a thought.

 

I think this is a really good suggestion.  When I started doing longer distances I had a lot of trouble running comfortably off the bike without severe back pain.  I did something very similar a couple of times during my training and it really helped a lot (more than just a normal single brick).  I never really understood why to be honest, but I was happy with the results!

Coach Rich

I'm a big believer in the non-existance of special run-off-the-bike fitness. That is, running frequently off the bike is really just a frequent opportunity to practice running slowly, probably with compromised form, and remind yourself, frequently, what it feels like to hit yourself in the head with a hammer by hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, frequently.

It's also common for athletes to think that the answer to a perceived racing problem is a fitness solution, when in fact the more efficient answer is to be found in learning how to race better.

When I think of young Doc Johnson, I think:

• Currently training in crazy, crazy heat, which will affect EVERYTHING. I can only imagine what heat like that does to watts on the bike, pace and RPE on the run, much less running off the bike at 11a or 12p after a long ride...
• Didn't you race IMLou a couple years ago with a 23-11? I think I remember you telling me about it before or during the race, when I was on the course?
• Don't forget we now have Matt's pacing in the heat tool, to help you better dial in your running pace to account for the heat at IMLou.

At this point in your training, the better, more time efficient solution is to add running frequency = running volume and wrap your head around racing as ninja-esque as you can, especially learning the details of Matt's pacing tool.

Michael Johnson

@Rich...

1st, thanks for using "young"....even though Im graduating to the 50-54y/o age group (WTC age)

2nd, yes I did use a 11-23 1st year, but had a 12-25 last year....helped alot (no big watts)

3rd, my VI of 1.16 sucked.....caused me to be on course too long (I had a 6:16 bike split and my 2 RR rides were 6:03 and 5:43 before, so actually had my longest time bike ride of year on race day....I suspect that played a part (Matt S had a VI <1.05 last year, this is my goal. I was able to do VI of 1.06 at IMKS on a very similar course this year. I'm finally learning to time trial....god i hope)</p>

4th, yes, the HEAT here is really killing us. I've resorted to most of my run at the YMCA. Todays ride I started at 0615 at 84F and it was 103F when I was done. I just cant start earlier......that's sunrise

Thx "Young" Doc Johnson

Norton

Yo: Doc Johnson,

Can't start earlier 'cause that's sunrise? Ever heard of a headlamp?

As a brevet rider when the temps are high I do most of my riding at night; the headlamp allows me to read my cue sheet and instrumentation.

Michael Johnson

@Bill

I don't trust the hillbillies around here already!!

Coach Patrick

Great feedback / input here. I think that your goal right now isn't the running off the bike (as Rich noted, that's easy stuff doing it the EN way) but riding a better bike split. That's time and effort on an IM-esque ride focusing on nailing your VI by cruising the ups and keeping the watts up on the descents / flats. That is definitely something that takes some serious practice. My guess is that your markers have you just as -- if not more -- fit than last year. So this additional ride is for execution improvement, not necessarily fitness (although that will happen). I would do it but keep your goals focused on what will make you faster on race day; it's not just about another 6 hours in the saddle. Per Rich I would go easy first 30', then steady IM effort (hell make it harder and go .7 only the whole way and really try to sit on it), if you can pick up effort in last hour, done.