Bonked again! Could use some guidance.
Well, as I sit on the couch about to pass out. I will post this and hope for some guidance from the EN peeps.
Looking at IMLV on 8/28.
Been having some trouble bonking on a few of the long rides recently. Today I went out for 4.5 but came back at 3 hours cross eyed. First time I have EVER cut a ride short. Totally bummed about it.
Weighted myself before I went out: 186.2
Came back and I weigh 176.2
Took 3 endurolytes/hour and 5 X 24oz water bottles spanned evenly over the 3 hours. Took about 250 calories/hour of INFINIT.
Classic bonking symptoms of chills, confusion, ZERO strength and yup...the nausea. Would love to emerge from this victorious, but I need some fellow athlete feedback.
Thoughts?
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Comments
Give us some more and I'm sure the smart folks here will start to put together some kind of plan.
Hang in there. (and have a drink, eh? :-) )
---Ann.
Hi Ann!
Thanks for writing-again
It is 91 today with 46% humidity. Attempted the z4/5 intervals but actually cut them closer to 4x10 minute intervals. Again, something I have never done before but I figured I would play it safe-it's hot- and I really want to nail my nutrition.
Bonk came on fairly suddenly I would say at around 01:45 I noticed a real lack of focus and strength in the legs. Crazy! Actually had a physical yesterday and the Doc said I am going to live forever (bonus!). Super healthy and doing great.
Also, this would be my second IM. Did Placid in 2009 and experienced none of this stuff. I am befuddled. Really appreciate your quick and thoughtful response Ann...
After reviewing your nutrition and that weather, I wonder if you have enough electrolytes? Are your water bottles strickly water or are you using a sports drink to supplement? Even using something low calorie, to not go over your caloric intake, may really help--someone directed me to nuun. I used it on my long run this week (hot hot hot run) and it worked really well.
If you are losing that much weight, even though you drank 5 full bottles, its apparently not enough. I struggle with this too, thinking that that must be more than enough, but heat can really confuse nutrion. Try 1.5-2 bottles per hour on those days, maybe one water and one with an electrolyte supplement (nuun, or something likewise).
Hope that helps and good luck!
Jeremiah, By your weight numbers you lost > 5% of your body weight during the ride. The rule of thumb I have see is once you get past 2 % you will see a performance impact, at 4% it is a significant impact.
At a heat index of 95 degrees, you are going to have a major challenge cooling. Once your body hits ~ 104 it will stop. I think those early intervals took you body temp up and as you dehydrated, and it got hotter and you finally hit the OFF switch level.
From the research numbers I have seen, at 100 degrees your 30 min TT power output is down by 16-18%. Now consider the level of work you did and at only 25 % efficiency the amount of heat you generated in your body that had nowhere to go due to the hot conditions . So your body heated up and shut down.
Along the way as the body heats up in hot and humid conditions it sweats more to try to cool itself. In humid temps above body temp the cooling impact is minimal so they system gets hotter and says sweat more. Now you get dehydrated and your blood plasma volume drops. It now is increasingly harder to push blood to the skin to eliminate the heat that the body is making and you get hotter. A spiral down begins.
To my knowledge there are two ways to deal with hot conditions. The first is get heat acclimated. This only helps to a point. The second is to slow down and have the body produce less heat.
Given the long winded comment above, I don’t think you bonked in the classical sense. Typically we have enough glycogen in our body for 1.5to 2 hrs of heard effort. You took in a smart level of calories so a Bonk is not what I believe happened. I could be wrong and it won'tbe the first of last time. Bill points out that some people need more calories.
Matt
As I re-read my post I wrote that I weighed 186.2 to start. It was 182.6! So I actually lost 6+ pounds rather than 10. Sorry! I was in a dark place
To answer Keith's question about the INFINIT. Yes, I am using a 3 hour concentrated feed bottle. For Lake Placid 09 I used 1 bottle per hour and processed it much better.
Regarding the sodium intake:
Infint: 379/mg per hour
Endurolytes: 120mg/hour.
I am going to go out tomorrow and give this another try. Here are my questions:
1. If I un-concentrate the INFINIT. Do I consider those bottles to be "water" as well? My plan is to hit the INFINIT every 15 minutes and then water in the Aerobottle to follow. This would have me drinking 24/oz of pure water/hour AND 24/oz of INFINIT water mix/hour.
2. How do those sodium levels look per hour? I am a salty sweater for sure. My helmet straps have turned white as they are caked with salt.
3. How would you approach those z4/z5 intervals on a hot day? Would you do them?
People..thanks so much for taking the time out of YOUR day to help me. This is an unusual and rather uncomfortable place for me...really having second thoughts about the race! (did I just say that?-yikes)
For tomorrow, yes, use just regular "drink" mode Infinit - not concentrate. And drink it and count it as fluid going in. However many calories are in a bottle, that's how many calories you got in an hour (if you drank a bottle an hour). Add some other form of calories and take those in with water (another 1/2 or full bottle an hour?) to get you up to your 300 calories per hour (or whatever number you decide - personally, I would try to go to 350+ - I do 250 per hour and I only weigh 115!)
Also, like Matt, I think the Z4 intervals were the source of the overheating starting so quickly. We had similar weather here today (low 90s and humidity in the low 60s) and I didn't even bother. I thought they would be too hard to do outside and I really couldn't face the basement again! If I had done them, I would have stayed in my basement and done them on the trainer before heading outside. Can you slap your bike back on the trainer and do this instead of going outside? (at least for the really hard stuff). If you can't stay indoors, just ride tomorrow without the intervals - try another z1-z2 type RR ride. Getting this feed/drink issue figured out is WAY more important than the intervals at this point.
I can't speak to the sodium issue. I'm sure someone else can chime in on this one.
You have several more weeks to get this nailed. Do NOT throw in the towel yet! You can figure this out and you will do this. And we will all be sending good vibes for cooler temps come race day on your behalf! :-)
---Ann.
I thought about the intervals and wondered if I was going to smoke myself...guess I got my answer.
It takes me 48oz/hr to keep weight stable
I've used Endurolytes in the past but I dont think they have enough Sodium
I use 2 scoops of INFINIT plus 2 Capsule of SaltSticks mixed in the bottle(has twice the amount of sodium) per hour (closer to 1000mg/hr than what your doing)
When I dont use this much salt my finger swell up...this is considered a sign of low sodium (at least that's what I've heard)....some of my serious bonk workouts and races my fingers have swelled.
I am a heavy salt sweater.....I can cake my cycle shorts with alot of salt after a long hot ride.
BTW its taken me 7 IMs to get close to figuring this thing out.
You calories/hr is fine.....you can get into much more trouble by going much over 300cal/hr (Ive made that mistake also)
The weight loss is Dehydration and Possibly a sodium issue
DONT FRET YOU WILL GET THIS RIGHT. YOU HAVE 5 WEEKS AND ANOTHER FEW LONG RIDES. CONTINUE TO DO THE SWEAT RATE CALCULATIONS. KEEP THE CALORIES THE SAME. ADD MORE SODIUM.
Jeremy - I agree with the comments to add more H2O and sodium. If you get white salt deposits on your bike helmet straps, you are sweating alot. I think your Infinit level of sodium may be light @ 380 mg per serving. I'm a heavy sweater too and 161 lbs. My Infinit formula has 450 mg of sodium and 123 mg of potassium per serving. You may also want to consider trying Succeed S-Caps. Each capsule has 341 mg of sodium and 21 mg of potassium (I just checked the label on the bottle). On really hot days (+80F) when I'm drinking up to 48 oz per hour, I'll take one S-cap per hour to supplement my electrolytes. This gives me 791 mg of sodium per hour. So far this has worked well to prevent cramping and i've had no stomach problems this season (knock on wood) combining Infinit, lots of water and S-Caps.
Hope this helps.
Jermemiah, You are just starting the process of becoming acclimated to the heat. Expect the first few sessions to kick your butt! It take 2-3 weeks to acclimate to the heat. Below are some articles on the process and the impacts.
As to your question for how to deal with tomorrow. If it going to be as hot as that ride then make sure you stay hydrated, As you acclimate to the heat your body will conserve the electrolytes. Your question on sodium, I also use Endurolytes and at that heat level 3 per hour works for me. Note that this varies significantly by person. 3 an hour should not cause an issue.
For how to handle your intervals I would go by perceived exertion levels, by now you know what a Z4/Z5 level of effort feels like. As I noted above, in that level of heat you watts capability is significantly reduced.
For us training in the hot for a hot race we have to different objectives, First ,do the solid interval work to drive fitness. This is best done in cool conditions, back to the pain cave if needed. Second the need to acclimate to the heat, this is time in the conditions. In my view , these two needs can’t be done in the same workout. Best of luck tomorrow!!
http://www.irunfar.com/2010/04/heat-acclimation-for-runners.html
http://fitbricks.com/new-articles/heat-acclimation-article/
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/heataccl/heataccl.html
@Matt. Can' t thank you enough for the articles. I am going to read them thoroughly right now. I think the pain cave idea is an excellent idea. Ann had also mentioned this..hadn't even thought of it. I will post back to tomorrow to follow up.
I am going to increase my fluids to 48ox per hour. This will be in the form of 1 bottle H20 and 1 bottle H2O/275 calories of Infinit. I will also stick to the 3 caps of Endurolytes per hour. I am also going to approach the ride as a "get used to the heat" ride and forget about intervals. More like a RR.
What an amazing wealth of info I found with 1 post. Thanks to everyone.
Read the articles...wow! Great reads.
REally got allot from the Fit Bricks. Wish I had read this BEFORE I went out! Would have helped but I am so excited to get out and try stuff tomorrow. Man, what a day. Just the worst day I have had training and it all fell apart in under 3 hours. Crazy. Going to figure it out thought. Great to have you and all of the EN folks giving nothing but the best advice.
I will follow up tomorrow.
JC
Good luck tomorrow Jeremiah!
Late to the party but here is an excellent resource by our very own Dr. Kitma that I’ve been following with much success this season. http://members.endurancenation.us/R...ion+Status