Help - I think i am using my PT & Joule as an expensive Cateye
so, here is the issue. I get the interval process, i have no problem hitting my intervals indoors on the trainer. As i have mentioned earlier in other threads, i live in a hilly area where there are no flats. so, how does one use thier joule to ride thier intervals properly in an environment where there are lots of false flats, slight inclines, declines, hills, down hills, etc.
Seperatly, how do i use the Joule? what happens when you hit the "interval" button? does it simply mark that as a spot in the data file? or does NP, etc now start measuring for just that interval? or are those readouts still for the entire ride?
i have had one team member explain to me offline that i am supposed to use NP as my wattage number for the interval so that smoothes out the hills in what i am looking at. but i can't seem to get NP to approach my z4 number.
I beleive, if i am not confusing threads, that Coach Rs advice was ride hard, ride lots, ride often. I have basically made sure that i work hard wherever/whenever possible, particularly hills. I do the midweek 60-75 minute workout on a drainer so i hit those intervals, etc.
of course, all of this means i have yet to do an outdoors FTP test as well.
thoughts? commentary? questions to help qualify the answer better?
I run my joule 2.0 with the following items displayed:
Watts Norm Pwr
Cadence HR
Ride Time MPH
IF TSS
Comments
Scott,
The Joule marks intervals, just like your watch and resets all the markers. In order to see the interval hold the interval button down for 2-3 seconds, then what is desplayed is the interval. otherwise you will end up seeing the total workout. It does take about 20-30 seconds for the PNorm and IF to start calculating for the interval, but as long as the interval is "long" enough, your power data will given you a Pnorm and IF for each interval {I think it has to be longer than 3 minutes, but can't recall}.
Paul
On my long rides I've recent started doing this as well, either by terrain and/or by time. I then manage my watts to meet my goals for that interval within my overall goals for the long ride. I'll occassionaly toggle back to the overall ride information (hold the interval button down again for 3-5 seconds and the monitor will switch from displaying interval information to overall ride information) to see how the entire ride is going.
I've found it's more useful, and motivating, to create and manage small intervals than to look at the overall ride too much. As Nemo said, once a ride gets above length X, that overall IF and Pnorm becomes almost impossible to move up yet very easy to move down (long admin section, coasting, etc). It can be a bit of a kick in the nutz and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to push it back up.
any more advice would be helpful.
let's add to this topic now:
advice for outdoor FTP test?
advice for adjusting FTP which was derived on a road bike to FTP on a tri bike?
Just a little thought on what to display on the Joule. I used to keep the NP in the "Top Six", and view the TSS and IF down below in smaller font. But since IF is the normalizer for the normalized power, I've started keeping that in the Center Window, with TSS and NP below. Two reasons for this. First, as my NP changes over time, the number I'm trying to hit in an interval will vary. What won't change is that I'm trying to hit an IF of, say 0.95-1.0. It's much easier for me to remember a number that never changes than try to re-calculate and re-remember my target NP every time my FTP changes. Second, IF is really the common language that allows us to compare ourselves and what we're doing to each other. Rich's 320 may be your 240 may be my 215, but our IF is 1.00 in all three cases. Much easier to communicate that way.
Advice for an outdoor FTP test: Not sure what you're looking for, but to me it's critical to get this done in as safe an area as possible: good shoulder, low traffic, no lights, no commercial zone where people are flying in and out of parking lots, etc. I drive somewhere to find that, rather than risk myself on the road where I live that have no shoulders. This to me is more important than flatness, which is my second criteria.
Road bike FTP >> Tri Bike - don't bother, two different positions, angles of attack, air resistance, etc etc. Liek trying to compare a stand alone marathon time to an IM marathon - not worth the computational effort as it will be based on untestable differing assumptions. THAT SAID, most people will be able to generate more power on a road bike, but won't go as fast, due to the wind resistance. Unless you're Mark Cavendish in the last 200 meters of a sprint - see how LOW he gets?
what are your thoughts between the two bikes if the test is done on a trainer?
You should test on the tri bike, in the aerobars.
I've always used my tri bike when on the trainer, 12 months of the year. Good to know it's the party line.
Great post!
I can't watch Current Watts on long rides (too erratic). I never thought of watching IF like Al said. Up until last weekend I watched Average Watts or Norm Watts, but they drove me crazy trying to push them back up like Rich said.
For a 6+ hour ride (like during a race), is it best to watch IF?
NOOOOO!!!!
Watch the current watts. Yes, they bounce around but you'll get used to it. IF very quickly becomes like Pnorm and average watts after you've reached X minutes of a ride: very difficult to move up, relatively easy to move down.
It all comes back to how we want you to race: in the Box. What are the watts I need to hold RIGHT NOW on this hill, in this tailwind, headwind, across the rest of this hill, etc. IF and everything else generally takes care of itself.
Looking at current watts and getting used to it bouncing around is all part of becoming a knowledgeable power user.
this may be the single biggest comment that addresses the title of this thread, while i am not using power the way i should in training (though that is about to change), i am definitely highly aware of my power in different conditions, so i guess it isn't just a cateye
I'm a little bit of a data geek and while I am racing I watch 3 power metrics at the same time. Very large and accross the top of my screen is real time power with no averaging at all, I pay the most attention to this. Below that and smaller, I watch 30-sec averaged power and lap average power. I take an autolap every 30' in HIM and every 60' in IM. Between those metrics I have a very good idea exactly what I am doing at the very moment I look down, the last 30 seconds and the full interval. The reason I like this is it allows me to fine tune my effort and bring the 30sec power up or down just a watt or two (without any spikes in the real time power). The lap power is more of an FYI and it works it's self out right if I ride steady. It is nice to have for a few quick checks though and to see if I'm going a little too hard or fading too much.
Matt, That sounds like a great idea, I think the back of neck to my head hurts constantly looking at wattage. I guess the garmin 800 can do this.
I live in a very hilly area. No mountains. No 3 mile descents that really screw up intervals. Just a lot of up and down at moderate grades, and very little flat. I used to freak about this. Then, one day, I went for a two-loop hammer near my house (4.6mi per loop) as a time-trial type effort. I rode as hard as I could, including most of the downhills (except one 20-second stretch where I need to be near the brakes for saftety). I nailed the interval, exceeded my target wattage, and ended up with a VI of 1.01. Yes, 1.01, despite thinking I was working too hard on the uphills, and not hard enough on the downhills.
When you're cranking it, you can overcome ups and downs. Now, if you live near Rich, and are going up mountains, different story. But most of us don't need to seek out perfect routes nearly as much as we think we can. Just learn to use the PM as a whip, not just a governor.
Whip = training. Governor = racing.
question, what should a VI & IF look like on a ABP ride of 2:45
The Joule 2.0 does display 8 metrics, you can't ride with just one. I agree with Rich and Matt: watch the actual watts as your default marker. I place it upper left, as that's where my eyes go first (like reading any page of a magazine or book). I keep the IF and HR visible as secondary info, HR to push or restrain me if my watts seem out of line, and the other to remind me of what I'm trying to do on THAT interval, either while training or racing. I try to divide a race course up into natural segments (e.g., the "flat section", the "hilly section", the "out and back") of no more than 1 hour, so I don't chase a number I can't get to. The others, % grade or elevation, time of ride/interval, and cadence are interesting diversions. The bottom stuff, TSS and NP, I'll check at the end of the interval/race.
The "work" portions of the ride should be at, or close to, .85 IF. The overall IF depends on the amount of warm up, recovery and cool down you take. If you are trying to ride steady, the VI should be as close to 1.0 as possible.
Yes. But you have to first enter Interval mode by pressing the interval button briefly. Those of us who use the interval protocol during training/races will hit the INT button at the start of the race, then hit and hold again for about 2-3 secs. Then what you see will be for that interval only, even when you hit INT briefly to start the next interval. You can go back and forth between seeing that interval and seeing totals so far for the ride by holding the button for 2-3 secs, but I never do that because it's too much of a mental stretch while racing.