Run Walk Pace Calulator

Matt Samojeden

I am a strong proponent of the run walk startegy on a marathon either stanalone or in an IM.  Attached is the run walk pacing calulator that i use.

 

 

MattAaronson

This is cool. My question is a bit more basic, which is, if you were going to apply a run/walk strategy (in my case in an open marathon not an IM), what would the right interval lengths and paces be for a specific VDOT?

Al Truscott

Just do the usual EN thing - run to your liquid of choice at the aid station, drink while walking, then take a few steps and start up again. Once I finally did that (on my 5th and last open marathon, @ Boston), I dropped my time > 20 minutes from the year before when I stubbornly kept running and splling fluid all over my shirt and pooped out in the last 6 miles. Of course, running slower in the first 6-8 miles also helped. Same strategy as an IM, just a faster pace.

Matt Samojeden

My approach is to take my vDOT calculated pace say a 9:00 per min mile.  I use the calculator to end up with a 9:00 min pace that is a combination of Run and walk.

 For a marathon, I us a 15 - 20 sec walk period at each mile aid station. For and IM is use 30 seconds.  Next I make by walking pace assumption say 15 min mile.   Now in the pace calculator I put in the walk pace of 15. For the 20 sec walk period, I enter 0.33 of a min for the walk time segment. I then adjust the time in the run to add to 1 mile and the run pace to give me my vdot pace. So I end up with this:

 

Others may have their view on the walk interval. 

Jeff Galloway is one of the strong proponents of walk run.  Here is one table from www.ehow.com/how_7810224_run-galloways-runwalkrun-training-method.html

Determine the Run/Walk/Run ratio that will work for you by using the chart below:

Min/Mile Run/Walk Ratio

8 min/mile 4 minutes/35 seconds

9 min/mile 4 minutes/1 minute

10 min/mile 3 minutes/1 minute

11 min/mile 2.5 minutes/1 minute

12 min/mile 2 minutes/1 minute

13 min/mile 1 minute/1 minute

14 min/mile 30 seconds/30 seconds

15 min/mile 30 seconds/45 seconds

16 min/mile 30 seconds/60 seconds

 
 

cgres123

I like this. I will use it on my next RR . So you save your legs in the beginning because you have to walk up front not at the end or its too late for it to work for you. You feel good at the end you can always stop the walk run method and run it in or decrease your walk time . Very nice ! especially for us challenged lower Vdot folks.

Matt Samojeden

Posted By David McLaughlin on 07 Aug 2011 07:01 PM

I like this. I will use it on my next RR . So you save your legs in the beginning because you have to walk up front not at the end or its too late for it to work for you. You feel good at the end you can always stop the walk run method and run it in or decrease your walk time . Very nice ! especially for us challenged lower Vdot folks.

Dave the theory is that by using different muscles in a different manner for X seconds, then main drive group gets a shorts rest.  When you reengage them they have had a slight rest. The net the slowing of the walk period is more than compensated by the ability to keep a strong run pace. So this is not a front end of the run protocol, this is all the way through to the finish. It works for all vDOT levels.

 

cgres123

Got cha Thx.

Michele Cellai

 Thanks Matt! Not that you need another cheerleader, but..

EN Folks- I used the heat pacing guidelines for IMWI last year, and also walked every aid station the EN way. End result? Best marathon ever - including stand alone.

Wicked Smart Member is Matt!

Coach Rich

For my last two long runs (2.5hrs, 18 miles) I've been doing them exactly how I plan to race on race day:

• 6 miles at 8:40-45 pace, as run 1 mile, walk 20"
• 12 miles at 8:10-15 pace, as run 1 mile, walk 20"

I finish the 6 miles at about an 8:39-40 pace for 6 mile interval. By the end of the run I'm down to an 8:22 average pace for the run. Pretty sure I'd be down to 8:17-18 by mile 22 or so, where things get interesting. Then it's just about keeping going forward.

My point is that doing runs like this in training are very valuable as you can see for yourself the interaction between the pace you run between the walks, the walking breaks themselves, the average pace that you end the mile with, and how the average pace for the entire run just keeps ticking slowly downward.

You also only have to focus and think about things for 8-9 minutes at a time before you give yourself a break and start over again vs doing the math at mile 15 = 9 miles left x 9' pace = 1:20 until the pain stops = someone just shoot me now.

Matt Samojeden

Rich, I also do my last 3 long runs using my walk run protocol. This helps get the brain wraped around the paces and it is ok to walk. What the calculator showed me was that the amount of time you are walking is so small and with this understanding the mind can accept that the upside potential is real. Then when the results confirm it in a race, one has no doubt going forward!

Al Truscott

@ Matt - I walk every mile (or less) in EVERY SINGLE running workout I do. Partly 'cause I'm lazy, and partly just from habit, like I've been counting strokes when swimming since I was 15 or so, but mostly because I'm faster and feel fresher at the end of the workout. When I do intervals, I walk until my HR goes below about 105, then jog until I start the next interval. Bricks, long runs, I take a walk break every mile or so and drink while walking. When I first started doing it this way, I discovered my times for the same training routes were faster. That revelation cemented it for me.

@ Rich - I'm not yet convinced that doing the final couple of long runs the same as race day is best. But it sure would be easier than the grueling runs the EN plans prescribe. My theory on the long runs is I want them to FEEL like the last 2-2.5 hours of the IM marathon. In order to get that RPE, I need to tire myself out at the front end with HM pace work, not go slower at the start. Then a finish somewhere between MP and LRP is what's needed to mimic the sensations of struggling home in the last 6-8 miles. I have no trouble going slow enough on race day, but I think if I did the long runs that way, I wouldn't get the neuro benefit I need from them.

But if you're already fatigued from doing a lot of cycling during the 20+ hour weeks you're hitting, it may be another story.

morpheus

I tried this today on a training run. Made a good impression, especially considering its coming as day 3 of a biggish 4 day block and it was at 3 in the afternoon. Think I'll keep doing it and race it on Oct 9th (HIM). thank for the tips.

Matt Samojeden

Chris best of execution on your HIM. The surprising thing from my view is how little time one gives up in the walk break that accomplishes many things – nutrition , hydration and muscle group change.

GSmith821

@Al, Matt, et.al., for how long do you typically walk? 30 seconds, 1 minute? The only issue I seem to have with Run/Walk is it's hard to get back running. Is that common?

Steven Ford

@George, yes it can sometimes be hard to get back to running but with practice it comes easily. I use this strategy even in 5ks as its a reward for hard work.

I will let you know how this works as I am planning on running/walking for the half iron this weekend and I only will of had 2 20 minute runs under my belts in the last 2 months.

I wonder how many people I will pass

Matt Samojeden

@ George - For a marathon, I use a 15 - 20 sec walk period at each mile aid station. For and IM is use 20 - 30 seconds.

GSmith821

@Steven, best of conditions and outcome this weekend, brother.
@Matt, thanks for your input, as usual.

Coach Patrick

@george, that's why practicing the walk/run makes it easier to keep running...you get good at starting again. I find the first step is critical to getting momentum back...a really high knee pick-up and back on it with a forward lean, etc. I used a 10" power walk as a reward in Placid for cresting the big hills...totally worth it.

Coach Rich

My observations on my last long run, posted to the IMWI group, after not doing the run/walk thing on my run:

 

Long run today, decided to do 15 miles, 2hrs vs the scheduled 2:30. Want to run about 7 tomorrow (would be zero if I did the 18) and another 7 on Sunday, pushing me over about 45-47 miles for the week.

My last two long runs I've done the 20" walking every mile thing. Today I just turned left out of the driveway and settled into a comfortable pace, about 7:45-50, which is just a bit faster (~7:55) then the pace I run between the walking breaks when I'm doing my IM pace stuff after mile 6. Felt easy, comfortable, etc. But as the run wore on, the mental thing took it's toll and I struggled at the end. So while my per mile pace for this run was about 15-17" faster per mile than my last two, IM-rehearsal-flavor runs, the trend was definitely downward at the end.

The run drove home a couple lessons for me:

• The E+30" thing, then E-pace really works.
• 20-30" walking breaks really work also, from a pace perspective.
• Most importantly, the above really conserves your mental energy which is what it's really all about in the last 8 miles. If you've been a badass, tried to make things hapen all day -- on the bike and on the first half of the run -- you've burned a LOT of mental matches. You've been pushing yourself, either in little bits or in large chunks, all day and when things start to get really tough you don't have any remaining mental matches to answer the day with. Vice when you don't engage, when you ride the plan, when you run crazy easy for 6 miles, then easy, taking walking breaks throughout, you conserve those matches for when it's really needed, in the last 8 miles.

Anyway, physically I wasn't much worse off than on my previous 18 mile runs. But mentally...was not jiggy. That said, I picked a car about a block from my house as my "IM Run Shitty Training Finish Line" and was VERY happy when I got to that car . Next week running 2 x 9 mile hilly tempo runs vs one long run.

David Ambrose

I love run-walk in racing but try not to do it in training. With the benefits most folks report from the run walk approach, both mental and physical, I am curious why there seems to very little discussion on such a concept on the bike also, such as 5-10 second easy pedaling or coasting every 5-10 minutes. Wouldn't a similar approach adapted to the bike leg be beneficial towards having slightly fresher legs when entering T2? Thoughts?

William Jenks

I've been practicing the run/walk thing precisely because it is so UNnatural for me. I can't stand the thought of doing it in an open run event. But I know it's worked for me the last two HIMs this season - both run PRs (best = 1:31) - and I am assuming it will be a necessity at the IM distance... so getting that "restart" mentality is so important for me.

Al Truscott

 @ Dave - re:

I am curious why there seems to very little discussion on such a concept on the bike also, such as 5-10 second easy pedaling or coasting every 5-10 minutes. Wouldn't a similar approach adapted to the bike leg be beneficial towards having slightly fresher legs when entering T2? Thoughts?

At least in training, and even to some extent in racing, we are doing that naturally when out on the road as the course undulates, turns, wind changes direction, we deal with slower/faster people aorund us, etc. We're alwasy getting little bouts of unscheduled rest while biking, we just don't notice it. When running, though, it's just one step after another, and, man do we need a break sometimes!

@ Rich - 

Most importantly, the above really conserves your mental energy which is what it's really all about in the last 8 miles. If you've been a badass, tried to make things hapen all day -- on the bike and on the first half of the run -- you've burned a LOT of mental matches. You've been pushing yourself, either in little bits or in large chunks, all day and when things start to get really tough you don't have any remaining mental matches to answer the day with.

Yep, that about sums it up. I had never experienced that *mental* feeling in an IM until CDA this year. I'm sure I was trained and able to run the whole way, and I had paced the bike conservatively to a fault, but the immense effort I made mentally both in the 5 months getting ready for THIS race, and then trying to get through the first part of it (I was not sure after an hour in the water that I would actually finish the swim) just overwhelmed my circuits for the last half of the run.