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Dear Lord, please let my freefalling watts be a calibration issue...

 I'm jus sayin'.   

Anyone know how to confirm whether or not my Joule 2.0 has the 'beta firmware that allows zeroing (Quarq) thru the head unit'?  On the phone with Cycleops now but the hold is crazy long.

My last couple of workouts have been brutal.   trainer intervals.  since July 10th (an oly where my run blew up) have swagged the FTP down so that I can finish the intervals and still having so much difficulty coming near the 95-100% FTP.  75-80% feels like what 100% used to feel like.  Feels like I'm climbing the Alps in my basement.

Any other ways I could be sabotaging these workouts?  Kurt Kinetic Road with the extra 12(?)lb weight added to the flywheel.  Cinched down supa-tight every time.  On a climbing block with slight incline.  Aero.  With fan and fluids.

Probably just cooked legs, right?  Face the facts.  Just baffling me cuz I'm gettin' faster and stronger, but all of the numbers (except mph) are going down.

Comments

  • Shayna at Quarq wants to see my WKO+ files. I haven't emailed this stuff before and I don't see any 'email' icon. Any help? this will be good for me to learn so that I can do that crucible thingy.
  • Given the choice between "broken powermeter" and "tired athlete" it's usually the latter, but if you want to be sure:

    Do you have (or know someone with) an iPhone/iPad/iTouch? Try downloading Qalvin (free) from the app store.

     

    You'll also need one of these:


     

    (REI has a generous return policy).
  • What operating system are you running WKO+ on? (i.e. XP, Vista, Win7?)


    But in short:

    Go to My DocumentsTraining PeaksWKODataLastname Firstname and you should see a bunch of .wko files (the filenames are somewhat intuitive)

    Copy one of those and paste into an email.

  • Hey Craig. Yeah, I suspect it's just me. I do plan on picking up that Wahoo dongle for the Qalvin. Can use the app on my iphone. But I want answers to why I'm going backwards by the time I hit the sack tonight. A little impatient, huh?

    WKO+ is on windows7. And another stupid question...I have to send each individual workout? can't send it bulk?

    Found the 'email the workout' option for an individual workout, but need to set up an email program (?) in my Default programs for it (WKO+) to use to send to anyone. That was the error message I got. How the hell do I do that?
  • A quick glance shows that there doesn't seem to be a way to send multiple files in WKO at one time.

     

    You also need to have an email client configured in Windows (i.e. Outlook, or Windows Mail) - if you're just using webmail, you won't have that.

     

    Best would probably be to go to the folder I mentioned above, select multiple files, right click and send to zip, then attach that to the email.

     

    Alternately, if you want (and trust me) I could over-the-shoulder your machine for a few minutes.
  • got the folder option to work, after setting up an email client. And I might give you a PM if I have any more trouble. Thanks very much.
  • Posted By Chris Hardbeck on 09 Aug 2011 05:18 PM

     I'm jus sayin'.   

    Anyone know how to confirm whether or not my Joule 2.0 has the 'beta firmware that allows zeroing (Quarq) thru the head unit'?  On the phone with Cycleops now but the hold is crazy long.

    My last couple of workouts have been brutal.   trainer intervals.  since July 10th (an oly where my run blew up) have swagged the FTP down so that I can finish the intervals and still having so much difficulty coming near the 95-100% FTP.  75-80% feels like what 100% used to feel like.  Feels like I'm climbing the Alps in my basement.

    Any other ways I could be sabotaging these workouts?  Kurt Kinetic Road with the extra 12(?)lb weight added to the flywheel.  Cinched down supa-tight every time.  On a climbing block with slight incline.  Aero.  With fan and fluids.

    Probably just cooked legs, right?  Face the facts.  Just baffling me cuz I'm gettin' faster and stronger, but all of the numbers (except mph) are going down.



    You mention that your doing intervals on the trainer and swagging your FTP.  Are all of your rides on the trainer or are you mixing indoor and outdoor rides in WKO+, so the data is inconsistent?  Most of us cannot hold FTP watts inside that were created outside---just doesn't work.  

  • x2 what keith said...IN vs OUT are very different...and not worth comparing really!
  • I understand that IN vs OUT can be a big discrepancy. I'm mainly referring to IN only. I came back from an early July oly and devoted myself to doing most interval sessions inside for consistency. Did a test and though the FTP went down (to 200), I've used it as a baseline since. But, now, I'm having trouble even hitting those numbers.

    When I do go outside, usually Saturday and/or Sunday, my numbers seem to be closer to 'ok'. At this point, I'm using 230-240 for the outside FTP and it 'seems' to be spot on.

    My frustration is coming from the Pain Cave. I've accepted lower FTP numbers, much lower, but I can barely hold 10' for the intervals, feels like thick quicksand. Is it possible to set up the trainer in such a way to sabotage these Pain Cave workouts?

    Bottom line...I feel strong outside but when I do the workouts inside, I feel maxed out (RPE) at about 70-80% of FTPinside/tri position.
  • Since you mention Quarq used with a Joule...... I finally bagged the Joule and went with the Garmin 500 just because there was an issue that I never got resolved. I had the beta firmwared on the Joule but it still would not show zero watts, when I was at zero watts. When I was coasting, it would go to dashes on the power screen and not record info there. Talking to Quarq, they said that was a problem with Joule in that it depended on getting a cadence input from the Quarq to continue to record power. No cadence = no power. When I'd review my workout, there would be gaps that corresponded to the "dashes" on the Joule and confirmed I had no power recorded in that period.

    If I ever find a solution to that issue I will most certainly go back to the Joule, as I really liked the unit, but that little quirk just annoyed me. Excellent unit with that minor exception. I currently use the Joule paired with my Power Tap wheel now and it works great in that setup - it's just an issue with the Quarq / Joule combo as far as I can tell.



  • Is it a big ass fan? Preferably two? I can barely do trainer intervals in the basement in the middle of winter. Add summer/heat/humidity? Ugh.

  • Chris, what is your calibration (really zeroing) proceedure like with the quarq?

    The reason I ask is the few times I have seen numbers that have been off on my quarq it has been because the zero offset someone drifted way off (and the numbers are noticably off like I'm holding 100 watts more or less than usual). A manual zero has always always fixes it right away, and an auto zero while coasting usally does as well. The other time I have seen numbers off is was because the battery was starting to die. For 2 workouts I had a few cutouts (which are easy to see in WKO) and my averages were lower than usual... put a new battery in and it worked perfect again.

    As far as calibration:

    I personally spin the crank backwards a few revolutions to wake it up and set the right crank arm to 6:00. Then do a "calibrate" which really just returns a zero offest number. I note this number and in my basement it is almost always between -400 and -410. Quarq refers to this as a manual zeroing. Outside it can vary a little more and I have seen -375 to -450 based on conditions. I do this before I'm on the bike and it take about 20 seconds.

    I then warm up for about ten minutes and back peadl 4 times again to trigger the quarq to zero itself. I don't do anything else to look at the offset value or anything I just trust that the quarq is doing it's thing. If I'm riding for a long time or the weather has changed significantely I'll do this a few times throughout the ride when approaching a stop sign or waiting at an interestion, etc. This is an automatic zeroing and can be done as often as you want.

    At the end of the ride I agian do the manual zero like I described before the ride. I do this to get the offset at the end of the ride and to double check it didn't drift too much. It is almost always within about +-5 of the original valve pre ride. If there was a big weather change sometimes it is more.

    If you can't get the manual zero to work on the Joule, you should at least be doing the auto zero before your workout and after the warmup as this will ensure the unit is zeroed. Even though you can't see what the offest is you will actually be doing the same thing.

    FWIW, I tried out a Joule with my quarq when they first came out and I didn't like the combo at all (plus I hated having to use a speed sensor). I have been using a garmin edge 500, 800, and 310XT with the quarq for over 18months now and love it with those devices. Everyone (except me) in EN loves the joule though and swears by it. Maybe if I had a PT i would feel differently.
  • I thought I was having a similar problem. Turned out (I think) that the issue was heat. The ambient tempature in my pain cave was a lot different In July/August than it was in March/April. Cranking the fan, and adding some arm coolers immediately bumped my output by 10-15 watts.
  • We'll see tonight. Active recovery spin on the trainer tonight. Will try a few short FTP intervals just to see if anything looks different right off the bat. Saturdays big ride will be tomorrow (outside). Gonna change the battery thus weekend, too.
  • Have done the manual cal as Shayna (Quarq) and Matt A suggested, or more accurately, a manual zero. I do believe something was going on, I'm not as crazy as I feared. Set up the trainer for an hour spin this evening. First thing I noticed was the warmup. For the last couple of weeks, even the warmup seemed tough, working hard just to keep the watts around 100-120. I swear to you this, the same effort tonight, on the warmup, was hitting 175-190w. I was happy to see this, so I pushed it up to what I was using for FTP after I tested indoors right after that July 10th Oly. Able to hold that 200 for 35' (recently I could barely hold 175-180 for 6'-10') and backed off cuz I'm doing Saturday's big bike tomorrow due to life stuff on Saturday. then threw in 2 more 6' FTP intervals before spinning it out for a cool down. So, I think I'm feeling a little bit better about this.

    Makes me wonder, tho.....If the value displayed was starting to stray downward, when did it start? My point, I was very disappointed in my execution at that oly in early July. I wonder if I was overbiking cuz I was pushing through a watts value that might have been reading lower than it actually was. My run blew up. Lots of factors, heat/humidity/life stresses/poor taper/etc, but this factor would certainly contribute to a poor run also.

    Anyhow, tomorrow's outdoor ride will use a goal FTP of 230 for the workout, as opposed to the goal 200w on the trainer tonight. Wonder how that will feel in comparison to tonight's trainer ride.
  • I can't relate to the experiences with the Quarq, but I have had a ton of experiences like that with the PowerTap on my Kinetic Road Machine. Seems like every time I stop pedaling and coast (like getting off the bike to turn on a fan), the calibration shifts. PITA. Nowadays, I always hit the brakes whenever I stop pedaling on the trainer.

  • Mike, how do you know that the cal is shifting during a workout? Just numbers go whacky based on RPE's?
  • power at a given speed on a trainer should be constant (within reason, of course) during an individual session (and if the trainer is any good, should be similar across different workouts). When I see 240 watts at 20.5mph, and then after getting off and turning on the fan, I see 205 watts at the same speed, I know something is up.
  • hmmmmmm, that sounds kinda familiar.
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