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Altitude Adjust FTP?

Here I am at altitude again, doing a Big Bike Week (10 days, actually). I did my first ride today, one I always do as my first ride. As I was looking over previous performances on the same route, I wondered, "Should I adjust my FTP in WKO+ to account for the known drop in FTP which results from diminished oxygen pressure at altitude." If anyone has ever tried to do an FTP test @ 8000', or tried to climb with intensity in the high mountains, or read research on altitude effects on FTP levels, it's obvious that one's 8000' FTP WILL be lower than at sea level (where I usually train.) So, for fun, I was thinking of looking at my NP, TSS, and IF for my rides here based on an adjustment of 12.5%, which seems to be a good conservative estimate of the discount 6-8000' altitude puts into one's FTP.

When I did that, my IF of 0.67 became 0.76 for my 3:15/52 mile ride today up 4 Cat 2 climbs. ANd the climbs became 0.8-0.85 IF, instead of the 0.70's I was reading. Those altitude adjusted numbers were more in line with what the ride FELT like.

Comments/Advice? 

Comments

  • Here are two blog entries which come to the same conclusion I have; Joe Friel's has citations for the articles he references:

    http://www.twowheelblogs.com/how-al...wer-output

    http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/0...mance.html

    The table Two Wheel Blog guy developed pretty much is in line with what I experience, at least between 6 and 12,000 feet:


    Altitude
    Feet Meters % FTP
    0 0 100%
    1000 300 99%
    2000 610 98%
    3000 910 96%
    4000 1220 95%
    5000 1520 93%
    6000 1830 92%
    7000 2130 90%
    8000 2440 88%
    9000 2740 86%
    10,000 3050 83%
    11,000 3350 81%
    12,000 3660 78%
    13,000 3960 75% 

     As an example, today, I did a 90 mile ride, trying to hit the uphills @ IM race effort, and use the downhills for recovery. The elevagtion was between 6700 and 8400'. The uphills were 17 miles long (2 different ones) and 5 miles long (2 different ones). The terrain dictates the lengh of the interval! Using an FTP of 90% of my sea level FTP, obtained last week, I did the intervals all at an IF between 0.7 and 0.72. It did NOT feel like I was doing 0.63-0.65 IF, as my sea level FTP would indicate.

    The hard part comes (literally) as I rise in altitude, say from 7800' to 9800', and have to keep my wits about me and allow my watts to drop the higher I go. 

    This perspective will come in handy later in my week as I try to mix in some higher intensity interval work (at a lower altitude). Basically, it looks like I'll be doing run TP intervals @ HM speed.

    Tomorrow, I may speculate a bit on the potential negative impact of training at higher altitude.

  • Interesting. The table suggests that 12.5% is a bit of an aggressive adjustment, however.

    I don't have a lot of experience at altitude although last year I did a week long vacation in Colorado with my family (Buena Visa area). We slept at a friend's ranch at 10,500 feet and I rented a road bike and did some rides in the range of 9-10k feet (plus a ride up the Cottonwood Pass which was something like 12k feet). I didn't have power at that time and had no experience with power back then either. But on an RPE basis I didn't feel as gassed as I thought I would. This was the opposite of my running experience -- I entered the local July 4h race (5k) and ended up something likel 2 and a half minutes slower than a PB that was set only a month earlier.

    Now that I have power I'd love to repeat the experience and see what all the data looks like.
  • I don't notice any difference. Oh, wait, I live in Denver. It's great for me to go to a lower altitude. Feels like I'm driving a different car too!
  • I live up in fort collins and have been down to the boulder center of sports medicine a few times for various testing.. They are driven by data, and at least one of their top tri-coaches has is pro's race at 8% higher power compared to altitude.. I didn't see the data, but that seems to roughly agree with your numbers.

    That said, since my FTP is ~290, can i altitude adjust that to 315 and just use that? I've never been able to hit 300, maybe i need to move to san diego? or hawaii? image
  • I'm not a research scientist, just a guinea pig who can read and understand the exercise physiology articles. I also live in a world in which the "ideal" training program ("Live high, train low") using altitude is not affordable, from either a $ or time perspective. But I'm on a journey of exploration, and have decided on a few principles which may be useful in my world. I'll jot them here, then after the IM AZ altitude training camp we're having next couple of weeks (or maybe after the race, when I have more time), I hope to put this into a wiki article with some practical advice on this topic.

    So, in no particular order, some thoughts in the topic of altitude training for an IM:

    • There are physiological changes which occurat altitude  regardless of whether one trains or not. The physiololgical changes which may be of benefit to an IM athlete include enhanced oxygen transport: more red cell mass, increased muscle capillaries, increased # of motochondria, increased efficiency in O2 transport within the muscles, increased muscle myoglobin, et al.

    • Training intensively (FTP/IP and VO2 max intervals) above about 4500-5000' will be of less value than the same training lower, and if done exclusively, will result in probable de-training for the already well-conditioned athlete.

    • Training above 3000 meters (9900') will result in reduced muscle mass over time. Also, the increased heart rate, dramatic drop in actual FTP, and increasing RPE all speak against doing any actual training above 10,000 on the bike.

    • Already well-conditioned athletes have been shown to gain some performance benefit from training at altitude for 1-4 week periods.

    • The ideal time and plan for short-term altitude training for an IM would be AFTER one has already achieved a plateauing of FTP and VO2 max, and AT THE START of the period when one is emphasizing "race-specific" power and pace training - for us, ther period when we focus on long rides @ 75-85% FTP and increasing long runs with HM pacing involved. But BEFORE we start to put the finishing touches on that training with our race rehearsals.

    • That time is probably 7-9 weeks before the IM.

    • The idea is NOT to raise one's FTP, or even increase one's hematocrit. Rather, the goal might be to raise one's ability to sustain a slightly higher NP for the length of the IM bike, and to reduce or eliminate the fall off in running pace after miles 10-13. E.g., one might be able to race @ 0.72 IF instead of 0.70. The race rehearsals after the altitude training would confirm this enhanced ability, and the training after returning to lower altitude should then reflect this.

    • The "ideal" altitude training paln would involve living @ 2250-2500 meters, and then spending two days/one night a week at an altitude lower than 1250 meters. Those two days would be used for bike and run interval training, and high end swim speed work. Short of that plan, the ability to at least drop 500+ meters for run (and swim) training would help that specific aspect of training. Again, if descending once a week is not possible, then a sustained uphill effort at threshold (even if lower actual power than at sea level) of 30-60 minutes once a week should help maintain one's sea level FTP, at least for up to three weeks.

  • I'm unsure as to what you accomplish by adjusting your FTP? I adjust FTP when I know that there's a clear indication of a physiological adaptation (positive or negative) that has longer term ramifications to my training. 10 days worth of training at altitude should mostly be done by RPE anyway, don't you think (especially for someone with your experience)?

     

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